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【quora】为什么中国人在他们的政体下没有感受到压迫？
本帖最后由 ybaijin 于
18:54 编辑
Why is it that alot of Chinese people don't feel oppressed by their regime?为什么很多在中国人在他们的政体下不感到被压迫？
来源：/Why-is-it-that-a-lot-of-Chinese-people-dont-feel-oppressed-by-their-regime龙腾网
【译注：</ 是美国版的知乎，汇聚了来自世界的精英学者、行业专家。这个网站上有一些关于中国的话题非常有趣，经常有一些外国小白问一些偏见满满又十分脑残的问题——如本题，然后被网友们打脸甚至群殴的事情，比中宣部的战斗力大概高100的1000次方倍吧，呵呵，不说了，我得给克强同志打个电话先。】
【另：这个话题也有很多中国人回答，由于大家讨论的很热烈，回答比较多，为了让龙腾网友更多了解老外的想法，我选取的多数是外国人的评论，以及少数得分较高的中国人评论，大家可以从评论者的名字来分辨。】
问题：I've known only a few Chinese people who were abroadfor study/work (expats excluded), and most of them didn't feel oppressed atall.
On the contrary, one in particular, was very happyabout it, and he felt that the government was a great help to the population.
How is that possible?
Edit (1 month and 33 answers later):Thanks everybody for the answers. Some were morehelpful than others, of course, but that's how it goes.
Just one addendum: stop counselling me to come visitChina and see for myself unless you want to sponsor the trip for me, as I don'thave the spare cash right now.Thanks.
我只认识少数几个在海外工作或学习的中国人，他们大部分完全没有感受到压迫。相反，特别是其中一个人，对政府感到非常高兴，他感到政府帮了国民很大的忙。这怎么可能？
编辑（在1个月内得到33个回答后）：谢谢所有回答的人。有一些人的答案比别人更有用，这是当然的，事情总是这样。只补充一点：请不要再建议我到中国去亲眼看看了，除非你愿意赞助我，因为我现在没有足够的存款。谢了。
Lucas Karl Hahn268 upvotes by Naiwei Li, Xun Wang, Shijia Wei, (more)You have to look at it from their perspective. 你要从他们的角度看问题。
China had a really bad 150-200 years until around the year 1980. Inthe mid-nineteenth century it experienced foreign occupation, a Taipingrebellion where millions died, and starvation, all at the same time. Then thedynasty collapsed in 1912, and China was carved up by warlords. The 1930s and1940s saw simultaneous civil war between the CCP and the KMT as well asJapanese occupation with the attendant war crimes (i.e. Rape of Nanking, massbeheadings). It then got unified under the Communist Party in 1949 and somehoped for a lasting peace but then the Communist Party became radicalized. Theresult was the Great Leap Forward, where some tens of millions starved to deathbecause of harebrained ideas such as making steel in your own backyard furnace.The 1960s and 1970s saw upheaval, power struggles and the Cultural Revolution.It quieted down a bit in 1980. 在1980以前的150到200年间，中国的日子相当不好过。19世纪中期它同时经历了外国侵略，导致了上百万人死亡的太平天国，以及饥荒。1912年军阀割据时代的到来，使它彻底倒塌。30年代和40年代，同时发生了国共内战和抗日战争，日本在中国犯下了可怕的战争罪行（即南京大屠杀）。1949年它被CCP统一，那时人们渴望过持久的和平，但不就后CCP却变得很激进。其结果就是大跃进，在这期间因为一些脑抽的想法，比如在你家后院的锅里炼钢，让千百万人饿死。60年代到70年代它又经历了动荡，权利斗争和文革。1980年一切终于平息了一些。（译注：T T）
China then saw double-digit growth for 3 decades, bringing tens millions outof poverty. That is why authoritarianism is tolerated, because material needsare being fulfilled. 之后中国迎来了30年的两位数增长，让千百人脱离了贫穷。这就是为什么独裁主义被人们忍受，因为物质需求得到了满足。
Think about their reference points. They probably don't compare their nation asmuch to other countries as they do to China's past. And right now things aren'tas bad as they were 50 or 100 years ago. Ronald Reagan asked the Americanvoters in 1980 &Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?& andproceeded to win the election against incumbent Carter, because the answer wasclearly &No.& If the CCP were to ask the Chinese people &Are youbetter off than you were 40 years ago?& the answer would be a resounding&Yes!& (though there is some nostalgia for socialism). 想想他们的角度。也许与把国家拿去与其他国家比较相比，他们更愿意与中国的过去比较。如今不像50年或100年前那么糟糕。里根总统在1980年问美国选民：“你们与比4年前更好吗？”，因此打败了时任总统卡特，因为答案明显是“no”。如果CCP要问中国人“你们比40年前更好了吗？”答案会是一个响亮的“yes”（尽管也有部分对社会主义的怀念）。
These reference points make the current regime look good. The Chinesetolerate a strong central government because they fear the two evils of civilwar and foreign dominance. 这样的视角使现在的政体看上去很好。中国人容忍一个强大的集权政府，因为他们恐惧两个恶魔——内战与外敌
Of course, everything is about reference points, and this will probablyultimately mean the end of 0ne-party rule as well. 当然，所有事都与视角有关，而这也许最终会终结XXX（译注：太反动了不敢翻自己看）。
China's economic growth cannot continue indefinitely at these rates. It willslow down, and see decades of slow growth. While a person who can remember 1970or 1980 or 1990 will see a huge difference between then and now,eventually ageneration of Chinese people will be born who have seen little change in theirmaterial status during their lifetimes. This will lead to impatience with theCCP and a greater assertiveness in demanding political reforms. 中国经济的增长速度不可能一直如此快速。它最终会慢下来，然后经历几十年的慢增长。当如今的人还能记得1970或1980或1990年的不同时，最终会有一代中国人会生在慢增长的年代，他们一生中只会感到他的物质水平只有一点点变化。这最终会导致对CCP的不满，和xxxx（译注：太反动了不敢翻自己看）。
Once people reach a certain level of income, they will care about&postmaterial& needs such as good governance, a clean environment,the rule of law. So the current regime will be transformed either way:if growth continues the people will eventually want other things as well, andif it stagnates they lose their popular support.当人们的收入达到一定水准时，他们会更关心“上层建筑”，比如好的政府，干净的环境，法律。所以现在的政体无论如何都会转变：如果增长持续着，人们最终会想要点别的东西，如果增长停滞了，他们将失去民众的支持。
Shijia Wei, Chinese learning more about China436 upvotes by Domenico Matteo, Eric Pan, Roy Peng, (more)Judging from your profile I guess you are German. TheGerman news is in particular critical of the PRC and the CPC and often portraysthem in a negative light. Even when there are some compliments, it's usuallyfollowed by some criticizing remarks. The funny thing is, while Germanjournalism resents China for its CPC one-party system and governmentrestrictions on the press, German business is fond of China as a profitable newmarket, so the German politics is stuck somewhere in between.从你的资料来看我猜你是个德国人。德国新闻对PRC和CCP尤为苛刻，经常从负面去描写他们。即使有一些恭维，那也是阴阳怪气的。有趣的是，当德国记者在鄙视一党制和政府对媒体言论的限制时，德国商人却非常爱这个利润巨大的新市场，所以德国政客正陷在两难之中。
Notice how all three parties are concerned with their own perspectives andstandpoints, but what about Chinese people who are actually living in China?The feeling is mixed. Many Chinese have seen their own situation improved frombeing poor to being well-off to affluent and seen China's internationalposition risen from the lowest pit to an important global player. They creditthis to the Chinese government and want them to keep on doing this goodwork. 注意这三方面各自站在自己的视角和立场，那么真正生活在中国的中国人怎么想？想法是复杂的，混合的。许多中国人看见了自己从贫穷变为富裕，看见了中国的国际地位从屁都不是到举足轻重。他们把这些功劳归给了政府，并希望他们继续保持。
On the other hand, there are many social issues like corruption, pollutions,weak rule of law, a widening gap between the super-rich and the average Chineseand some underprivileged people that are being neglected due to a lack ofsocial service or exploited for economic profit. Some blame the government fornot doing enough, but still have hope that it will get better with furtherdevelopment and reforms. Some view it as an inevitable consequence of rapideconomic development and industrialization, pointing to the stages ofdevelopment Western countries went through. And there are dissidents whobelieve that overthrowing the CPC is the best solution for making China abetter country, but currently this radical view is not very popular among manyChinese who prefer a moderate path of gradual improvements. This is in part dueto the CPC government using an iron fist *quieting* calls for radical moves sothat dissidents and activists like Ai Weiwei or Hu Jia, who are prominentfigures in German news, don't have many supporters among average Chinese or areeven hardly heard of, and in part due to the fear of loosing what China orone's own family has already accomplished by now and being content withimproving one's livelihood within the rules of the system rather thanrevolutionizing the system. 同时，也有很多社会问题，比如贪腐，污染，法律不健全，贫富差距拉大，没有特权的平民因为社会公益服务的缺乏或盈利目的而被忽略。有些人指责政府做的不够好，但也有人希望这些会因为进一步的发展和改革变好。有人说，这些问题是经济急速发展造成的不可避免的结果，就像发达国家曾经经历过的那样。也有一些异见人士认为，推翻CCP是最好的解决办法，但目前这种激进的想法在中国并不是很吃香，许多中国人更倾向于循序渐进的提升。这一部分原因是政府打压异见人士，如艾XX，胡X，这些人虽然是德国媒体眼中的大红人，在中国却没人鸟；另一部分原因是中国人害怕失去国家和自己的家庭已经得到的东西，他们更愿意在现行体制的规则下来提升生活品质，而不是革命。
All in all, ordinary Chinese are more concerned with how to improve theireconomic situation given the current political situation in China rather thanoverthrowing the system. Even when people are discontent, they are more focusedon the actual issues they are dissatisfied with (like corruption, pollutions, awidening gap between the super rich and the average Chinese and someunderprivileged people being neglected) rather than being discontent with thegovernment or the political system in general (at least not in the public). Thecurrent generation of Chinese people is very patient about reforms, becausethey have seen revolutions and violent government changes bringing disasters tothe ordinary people (note that the Chinese media also helped to promote thisview) while reforms in the last three decades have helped to benefit averagehouseholds. On top of that, working in China today is very competitive, withmany people under family or peer pressure striving for a better career andtrying to fulfill the Chinese (or common?) understanding of being successful - Havinga family and a career + properties (成家立业). Sothere is not much spare time left to think about political involvement oractivism, or energy left to take the required risks.（译注：本段翻译 @& &表示感谢）总的来说，一般的中国人更多关心的是如何在当前的政治环境下提高自己的经济地位而不是推翻这一体制。即使当人们不满时他们也更多的是关注他们不满意的现实问题(如对腐败、污染、不扩大的贫富差距以及一些特权阶级问题的忽视)，而不是对政府或政治整体表示不满(至少在公共场合是这样)。中国当前的这一代人对于改革抱有很大的耐心，这是因为他们看到暴力革命推翻政府给普通百姓带来的灾难(注意，中国的媒体在这点上起到了促进作用)同时近三十年的改革也使普通家庭获益。最重要的是，当今中国工作竞争非常激烈，在家人或同伴的压力下努力去实现中国人(或大多数人?)理解的成功——成家立业。所以并没有太多的空闲时间去思考政治参与政治活动，也没有精力去承担(寻求?)这些风险。
The Western media's portrayal that the majority of Chinese people themselvesfeel oppressed and are secretly crying for democracy now is not true. Somereally do hope for democracy, but reserve it for the future when thedevelopment level of citizens has reached that need for more politicalinvolvement. There are also many awful things happening and many ordinarycitizens know that despite the government's effort to play them down, but a lotof people either are numbed down into thinking that it's the reality that can'tbe helped or are still hoping that there will be gradual improvements in thefuture. There is just not enough confidence in thinking that a sudden change toa democratic system would be better. Many Chinese only have a vague idea of howdemocracy would solve China's current social issues or how democracy would begood for them or even the theories behind how a democracy should work. Apopular notion is that it's the job of politicians to figure out how to solvesocial problems, so average Chinese persons who don't have the power to makethe change also don't bother themselves with thinking too much about politics.Talk about economics with them instead, and the same people who are apatheticabout politics will be all fired up at how the Chinese economy will go.西方媒体塑造的那些中国人受到压迫哭着要民主的形象，并不是真的。有人确实希望民主，但他们把它保留到未来，当国民水准已经达到有更多政治需求的水平时。尽管政府努力减少影响，还是有不少国民知道，一些糟糕的事情发生了。但很多人要不然就麻木的接受现实，要不然还是盼望着，未来这些情况会逐渐改变。人们对猛然转入民主体制度是否会带来好处并不是很确信。许多中国人对民主如何改变社会现状，或对他们有什么好处，或民主到底是如何运作的，只有一个模糊的印象。一个普遍的见解是，政治家的工作就是去解决社会问题，这样没有力量去改变什么的普通中国人就不需要花时间去思考政治了。跟他们讨论经济吧，那个对政治冷漠的中国人会马上生龙活虎的跟你讨论中国的经济发展。
P.s. What many Chinese people do feel upset about is the government'sparanoidal censorship of the Internet (GFW) and media, because this issomething that does affect many people directly. But this alone is not enoughto motivate an uprising against the government. Some perceive it as aninconvenience that could be bypassed with some effort and think to themselvesthat &This too shall pass.&P.s. 许多中国人确实不喜欢网络和媒体的限制，因为这些直接影响到了很多人。但仅靠这些是无法带动anti政府潮流的。想一想“这一切都会过去的”，便会让他们忘了这些不方便。
Graham Lyons, Musician, composer, arranger, Jazz,C... (more)151 upvotes by Silvia Simeonova, Zhang Zheng, Haidong Zheng, (more)The question assumes Chinese people are oppressed bytheir government. Nothing could be further from the truth.这个问题预设中国人被他们的政府压迫，简直假的不能再假。
The Chinese government work hard, efficiently and with skill to improve thelives of their citizens. The PRC constitution limits the term of office of theParamount Leader to 5 years, with a maximum of two consecutive terms. Thoughnot one-person-one-vote democracy, the system in China is miles away from anoppressive dictatorship. 中国政府努力而高效，巧妙地提高了国民的生活品质。中国宪法限制国家元首的任期为5年，最多连任一届。虽然不是一人一票的民主制，但中国的体系与压迫百姓的独裁天差地别。
I visited China first in 2006 after listening to years of western commentary onalleged Chinese repression. In China I was able to walk anywhere and talk toanybody. I watched Chinese English language television and saw many opencriticisms of the Government on some programmes.
我在听了许多年西方媒体那套说辞之后，于2006年第一次拜访了中国。在中国我可以到处走动，和任何人说话。我看中国的英文电视台，有很多节目公开批评政府。
The Chinese government has brought 600 million people out of poverty and hungerand given them good housing, clothing and education. All this in three decades.Nothing as beneficial to humanity has happened in the history of the world.It's no surprise Chinese people support their government.中国政府让6亿人脱离了贫困和饥饿，给了他们房子，衣服和教育。完成这一切只用了30年。历史上再也没有比这更有益于人类的事了。中国人支持他们的政府一点不让人吃惊。
Edward Conway19 upvotes by Domenico Matteo, Lejing Hu, Joseph Schooling, (more)If your government did things that led to massivenumbers of people moving from poverty and starvation to a decent living, wouldyou feel oppressed?
The PRC, for all it's faults (every country has faults) has managed totremendously improve the standard of living in China.
Think back for a moment: in the 1940s, there was the Japanese Invasion ofChina, and the Chinese Civil War.
Then China took part in the Korean War, and they lost a lot of people.
Then there was the Cultural Revolution, where young people went around beatingup and arresting anyone who wasn't sufficiently obsessed with Mao.
This was real oppression: people fearing for their lives.
After this, things have actually gotten better. The massive famines that wouldkill hundreds of thousands of people? Not happening any more. Gangs of rovingthugs murdering people at will like there were during the civil war? No longera problem.
And, let's face it, if your income doubled in the space of a decade, and yourcountry was booming, would you feel oppressed?如果你的政府让几亿人脱离了贫穷和饥饿，过上了体面的生活，你会感到被压迫吗？
尽管PRC会犯错（所有国家都会犯错），他也让中国人的生活得到了巨大提升。
想想过去：1940s，日本侵略中国，还有中国的内战。
然后中国参加了朝鲜战争，失去了很多生命。
然后是文革，年轻人到处批斗，逮捕任何不够崇拜Mao的人。
这才是真正的压迫：人们害怕失去生命。
之后，事情逐渐变好了。让成千上百的人死亡的饥荒呢？再也没有了。在内战时期随意杀人的暴徒呢？再也没有了。
让我们接受这个事实，如果你的收入在十年之内翻倍，你的国家在急速发展，你会感觉受压迫吗？
Burton Fu6 upvotes by Joseph Fouche, Lee Zilong, Viv Gao, (more)Since the CPC is unwilling to give up its power, it istrying its best to convince Chinese that no others can do better by helpingpeople live a richer life. To a certain extent it did it.既然CPC不愿意放弃它的权力，它就尽最大努力去说服中国人，它可以帮助他们过上更富裕的生活。一定程度上它做到了。
Oliver Lee13 upvotes by Joseph Boyle, Emmetxu Emmetxu, Ivan Cc, (more)I was born in Countryside and both my father andmother are farmers. When I was 7 years old, we only have one Television coloredin black and white, one bicycle with huge size, a house without bathroom. Iwent to college and got a job after graduated. Now we have colored TV, Motorcycle, refrigerator, washing machine, we built a new house. Besides, I have abrother and a sister. Let the truth speaks, even through China did somethingwrong in the past, but have your countries ever did something good to us?我出生在农村，我的父母都是农民。我7岁时，我们只有一台黑白电视，一架大单车，一栋没有浴室的房子。我上了大学，毕业后找了一份工作。现在我们有了彩色电视，电摩托，冰箱，洗衣机，我们建了一栋新房子。另外，我还一个妹妹和一个弟弟（译注：或哥哥姐姐）。让事实说话，即便这个曾经对我们做了一些错事，但你的国家对我们做过什么好事吗？
ZiYe7 upvotes by Edward Conway, Jianguo Shi, Xiongfeng Zan, (more)because&&we were being brain-washed? Lol因为我们被洗脑了？哈哈哈。
Yì Yáng7 upvotes by David Lam, Joseph Boyle, Sissi Chen, (more)Heck, I do. I can't even access Quora without a proxy.How can I not feel oppressed?
But when I am abroad, it's a different thing. Nobody wants others to belittletheir homeland. You should be careful when talking about China with yourChinese friends. It's all too easy to blur the line between talking about asometimes shitty government and hurting the pride of another guy, which isprobably not welcomed. (the same for any other country obviously)我感到压迫了。没有代理器我连Quora都上不了。我怎么能不感到被压迫？
但当我在国外，事情就不一样了。没人喜欢别人轻视他们的祖国。你在与你的中国朋友谈论中国时应当小心。当你在批判政府时，很容易不小心会过了界，伤害了别人的自尊。这是不受欢迎的。（别的国家同样）
Vernon William Baumann8 upvotes by Chengguang Liu, Graham Lyons, GwydionMadawc Williams, (more)1. Ask yourself this, &Are the Chinese reallythat oppressed? Everything you know about China is fed to you by a Westerncontrolled media (the majority, btw, which is owned by only six corporations).Besides not being able to do an online search about things like Tiananmen&&Square (and let's be honest, is that reallygoing to impact on your life?) and other media restrictions, how doesgovernment oppression feature in the everyday lives of Chinese? If I went ontoa public forum, Internet or otherwise, in the US and I said I support Al Qaeda... I would stand a very real risk of being arrested. Simply for sayingsomething. So who's really being oppressed. The fact is that, in the wake ofthe Patriot Act, (and considering the contstant monitoring of publiccommunication and other infringements upon personal liberties) US citizens livein one of the most oppressive countries in the developed world. So who's reallyoppressed?1.问问你自己，“中国人真的被压迫了吗？”你所知道的关于中国人的一切都是被那些西方操控着的媒体灌输的（顺便说一句，大部分媒体都只被6个集团拥有）。除了中国人不能在网上搜索天X门事件和一些其他的媒体限制，政府要如何压迫他们的日常生活？如果在美国，我在公众论坛，网上或其他方式说我支持基地组织……我大概要担心是不是要被铺了。就只是因为说了这句话。所以谁才是真正被压迫的呢。爱国者法案（考虑到持续监督公众论坛和其他侵犯人身自由的行为）让美国人成为世界上最受压迫的人。所以谁才是真正被压迫的呢？
2. Eastern culture, as a whole, is far morecollectivist and hive-centred than western culture, which is predominatelyindividualistic. Chinese people are far more willing to make personal and othersacrifices for the sake of the greater whole, China and the Chinese government,in this case. So that alone makes them less likely to revolt against theirgovernment.2.相比西方文化中的个人主义，东方文化总体来说更强调集体主义。中国人比西方人更愿意为集体——这里是中国和中国政府——做出个人的或其他的牺牲。所以这让他们不太可能去反感他们的政府。
3. The Chinese economy is still the world's fastestgrowing economy (I speak under correction). In tandem with this, the militaryand diplomatic might of the Chinese government is growing in leaps and bounds.In addition to the US and Russia, China is also the only other genuine playerin the space race.3.中国的经济增长速度依然是世界最快的（这个说法有待纠正）。与此同时，军队力量和外交力量也急剧上升。另外，美国、俄罗斯和中国，是世上仅有的三个真正的太空竞赛玩家。
The government is obviously doing a stellar job. Sowhy would you have a problem with a state like this, as a citizen? Rather, itwould engender pride as opposed to anything like revolt. Wouldn't you agree? Iwould be proud of a government like that, I assure you. I live in South Africa whereour president built a $20 million mansion at the tax payer's expense and earnsthe world's fourth largest salary as a political leader. And yet, together withBrazil, we are the country with the largest disparities between rich and poor. 政府显然做的很一流。所以作为国民，你为什么要对这样的国家产生怀疑？相反，这只会激发自豪。你不同意吗？我会对这样的政府感到骄傲，我保证。我生活在南非，我们的总统用2亿美元的税金，建立了一座大厦，他的工资是世界元首中的第四位。然后，和巴西一起，我们是世上贫富差距做大的国家。
So tell me, would you feel oppressed in a country likeChina ... if you were a Chinese citizen? I would feel only gratitude ... andpride...所以告诉我，为什么作为像中国这样国家的国民，你要感到被压迫？（译注：我也不知道呢，问问港灿和湾湾吧，他们好像知道。）如果是我，我只会感到感激……和自豪……
4. The US has been policing and controlling the worldfor the last half a century. China is slowly moving into this position. I don'tfear Chinese hegemony at all. I think the US did a terrible job as WorldPoliceman. I don't China could, in any way, do a worse job. So yeah, my twoYuan's worth...4. 美国在过去的半个世纪一直掌控着世界。中国正在逐渐抵达这个地位。我一点不害怕中国的霸权。我认为美国做世界警察做的很糟糕。我不认为中过会搞砸。好了，我这两元值了。
William Emmanuel Yu, Chief Nerd.PHB and PHD.7 upvotes by Greg Kemnitz, Adrian Ho, Kuan Kiat Chew, (more)It is because we have a difference of values. The mostobvious one is freedom of speech and expression. 这是因为我们有不同的价值观。最明显的就是看待言论自由的问题上。
Folks outside of China value this freedom and consider it essential in modernsociety. We consider it unthinkable to not have it. However, the Chinese (andeven some other South East Asian countries) have made the trade-off to haveless freedom of speech and expression for societal security. This meansgenerations of Chinese didn't grow up with it and don't consider it essentialto everyday life. They simply don't put the same value on it as we do. 中国以外的人视自由为重要价值，认为它是现代社会的基本需求。我们认为那是不得不需要的。但是，中国人（甚至一些东南亚国家）用言论自由去交换了社会安全。这说明几代中国人的成长过程中没有经历过它，不认为它是生活的必需品。他们不像我们那样重视它。
In their view, Freedom of speech just isn't as fundamental as food, water andshelter compared to us.在他们看来，言论自由不像我们认为的那样，和食物、水和庇护所一样是生活的基本需要。
（译注：由于翻译任性的讨厌这个SB的陈词滥调，所以决定翻译一下下面回他的评论）Tony Li 3 votes (show)Put another way, the Chinese teach the concept of Harmony. This conceptis higher on their scale of importance than Freedom.换言之，中国人被教导和谐的概念。他们认为这个概念比自由更重要。 Lincoln Wong 2votes (show)In your country i believe the value took generations to shape and deeplyroot in the majority of population. This could also be the case in China.在你的国家，我相信这个价值观用了很多年经历了几代人才成型，并深深的根植于人民的心中。中国也会那样。 Lung KoIf you had to let go just one thing among food, shelter, water, andfreedom of speech, which would you give up?如果你要放弃食物，庇护，水和言论自由中的一样，你会选哪个？ Jianguo ShiIn fact, the freedom of speech is only limited in paring the online comments in China and the US, you will find the speech inChina is more open and bold, or freer.事实上，言论自由只是在某些方面被限制。拿中国网络上的言论与美国相比，你会发现中国的言论更加开放大胆，或者说，更自由。
Sean Bard3 upvotes by Lin Lishi, Scott Hoversten,and Xu Xu.For the most part, normal Chinese people tend not tocare or pay attention to politics as long as their life is getting better yearafter year.只要普通中国人的生活一年比一年更好，他们就不会关注政治。
Marshall Drew4 upvotes by Joseph Boyle, Joshua C. Yu, Scottie Claiborne, (more)I feel like I have a notable lack in information aboutChina vs. the US in terms of ideology, economic principals, and politics.However, I am an American who traveled to Jilin City in northern China with thesame thought about the relationship between the Chinese government and itspeople. While talking to my host family, I began asking several of them thesame question, and began to obnoxiously berate them on historical inaccuraciesthey've been told and basically how evil their government was. They didn'treally have a clue, and didn't care about their government. It didn't seem toaffect them in a big way as restaurant owners, seemingly untouched by taxes,law enforcement, and other facets of living in a Western nation. After a while,I felt the same way. I hadn't even seen any kind of law enforcement or governmentagents, they just didn't meddle in the affairs of the people. I don't know ifmy experience is enough to speak for Jilin, let alone the rest of China, butthat is my theory on why there isn't more dissent.我感觉我很缺乏有关中国VS美国在意识形态，经济原则和政治方面的信息。不过，我是个美国人，我曾经抱着同样的看法到吉林去旅游。当我与我的寄宿家庭聊天时，我也问过他们同样的问题，同时开始令人讨厌的斥责他们的政府扭曲历史，告诉他们这个政府多么的邪恶。他们一点不了解和关心他们的政府。作为餐厅营业者他们似乎没怎么受影响，税收、强制执法和西方国家的生活似乎并没有影响到他们。过了一阵子后，我也有这种感觉了。我没有看到任何强制执法和国家特工，他们并不干预普通人的生活。我不敢说我的经历能代表吉林，更别说中国其他地方，但是这是我对为什么那里没有很多异见人士的解释。
Chen Wang24 upvotes by Sarah Yam, Lin Lishi, Chang Honghao, (more)If they don't care, why do you care about it? Whydon't you care about those starving children in Africa? There is the betterplace to show your mercy. Do you really care about Chinese people? Do youreally know about Chinese people?
====================================================Edit(1 months and 33 answers later):
Thanks everybody for the answers. Some were more helpful than others, ofcourse, but that's how it goes.
Just&&one addendum: stop counseling me to come visit China and see formyself&&unless you want to sponsor the trip for me, as I don't have thespare&&cash right now.
This addendum makes everything clear.
One could not afford a trip to China, but concerned about Chinese people'slives more than his own life.
If you really worry about those pitiful Chinese people, ask your government togive the immigrant visas to all the Chinese. Then you will save the Chinese peoplebecause they've suffered enough and they are all willing to escape from thiscountry. What a easy and peaceful way!!! The US government never came up withthis idea. If they let every Chinese people come to the USA, Chinese governmentwill collapse, and the USA will become a new super power with 1.8 billionpeople!如果他们不关心，那你为什么关心呢？你为什么不去关心关心非洲那些快要饿死的孩子们？这是更能显示你慈悲的方法。你真的关心中国人吗？你真的了解中国人吗？
（中间援引了提问者补充说没钱到中国旅游的那一段）
这个补充解释了一切。一个连去中国旅游的钱都没有的人，却比关心自己的生活还关心中国人的生活。
如果你真的担心那些可悲的中国人，让你国家给他们发移民签证吧。这样你就拯救了他们了，因为他们在这个国家受够了，他们很愿意离开这里。多么简单而和平的办法！！美国政府从来没有想到这个办法。如果他们让每个中国人都去美国，中国政府就会倒台，然后美国会变成一个拥有18亿人口的超级霸权。
Daniel Goh3 upvotes by Viv Gao, Robin Daverman,and GwydionMadawc Williams.China is oppressive if one question the authority ofthe CCP or challenge the legitimacy of their rule.
Most people in China are too busy trying to improve their economic lot orcontented enough with their current economic lot to want to question theauthority of the CCP or challenge the legitimacy of their rule.
As long as the bread (or rice) are plentiful and growing, this trade-offbetween political/civil liberties and economic largesse is one that suits boththe CCP and the Chinese people.
Then, there is the issue of national pride. Most Chinese are brought upbelieving that historically, China herself has been unfairly oppressed by theforeign powers. Therefore, the majority are quite willing to&sacrifice& their personal freedoms and liberties for a strongerChina internationally.
只有当有人质疑CCP的权威或挑战他们规则的合理性，中国才会变的有压迫。
大部分中国人都忙于提升他们的经济份额或忙于满足他们现在的经济份额，没有时间去质疑CCP的权威或挑战他们规则的合理性。
只要面包（或大米）是足够的，而且还在增多，那么现在公民权利和经济发展之间平衡是适合CCP和中国人的。
然后，关于民族自豪感。大部分中国人从小就相信在历史上，中国被外国势力压迫。所以，大部分人愿意为了一个国际上更强大的中国“牺牲”他们的个人自由。
Tim Durkin11 upvotes by Domenico Matteo, Gary Raduziner, Joseph Boyle, (more)Most Chinese people don't feel oppressed by theirgovernment because most Chinese people are not oppressed by theirgovernment.
Unless you are a religious dissident, an anti-PRC member of an ethnic minority,or a democracy activist, you are not in any significant way oppressed. You mayhave to endure censorship, a certain lack of economic freedom, and an inabilityto take forceful action against the government, but it is worth asking whethercitizens of any country on the planet are entirely free from oppression inthese areas.
And though the level of government intervention and oversight might be higherin China than in the West in these respects, China gives people a lot moreleeway in many aspects of their private lives and subjects them to much lessonerous taxation.大部分中国人不感到他们被政府压迫是因为大部分中国人没有被政府压迫。
除非你是一个宗教异见人士，或者anti人民共和国的少数民族，或者民主活动者，你不会被压迫。你也许要忍受审查机构，少了一些经济自由，不能对政府采取强力的行动，不过你得看看，这世界上哪个国家的公民在这些领域里是完全自由的。
虽然中国政府在这些方面的干涉和监管比西方更多一些，但中国也给他的国民在私生活方面更多的空间，收更少的税。
Barry Thompson4 upvotes by Naiwei Li, Graham Lyons, Lin Peng, (more)Out of all the governments in the world China's ispretty successful. China has experience amazing growth and development and isvery, very stable. They have freedom! Sure they have problems, but show me acountry that doesn't. Democracy won't solve any of China's problems. All you'llget is 5 minutes of people thinking this is great, then they'll soon realisethat they just got 1 or 2% more freedom in exchange for loosing any stabilitythey had and they can watch as the economy crashes. There are lots of democraciesout there with some serious problems, far greater than China's. But people inthe west stumble to think up of an excuse for them.
Another point I'd like to make is that the actual day to day freedom differencebetween the west and China is nothing worth while noticing. The freedom in thewest is blown out of proportion. Often times it's a trade off, between certainfreedoms. There are lots of things you can do in &unfree& countriesthat you can't do in &free& ones.在世界所有政府当中，中国政府算是相当成功的。中国经历了令人惊人的从成长，而且非常、非常稳定。他们有自由！他们当然也有问题，但你告诉我哪个国家没有。民主不能解决中国任何一个问题。也许前五分钟人们会想，民主真棒，但很快他们会意识到，他们能多得到1%或2%的自由，但因此却牺牲了他们拥有的稳定。当经济崩塌的时候他们就会看到。这世界上有许多麻烦多多的民主国家，他们的问题比中国大的多。但是西方人总是固执的为他们找理由。
另外我还想说一点，日常生活中中国人和西方人的自由根本没什么差别。西方的自由只不过在吹牛逼。它常常是一个在不同自由之间的交易。有很多事情，你可以在“不自由”的国家做，但不能在“自由”的国家做。
Naeem Siddiqi1 upvote by Bill Bell.Perspective.
The same reason why Americans dont understand why most Middle Eastern peoplehate the US government. You think youre bringing stability by supportingmurderous thugs. others see you supporting murderous thugs.角度问题。
这就是为什么美国人不明白为什么大多数中东人讨厌美国政府。你们认为你们支持杀人暴徒是在维护稳定，别人只看到了你们支持杀人暴徒。
Joshua Mai4 upvotes by David Lam, Jason Stacy, Carrie Xiao,(more)Oppesssed people live in China and those who own powerare&&rich and send their family toabroad.The person you ask are beneficiary of Chinese regime.被压迫的人生活在中国，有权有钱的人才能把家人送到国外。你问的那些人都是中国体制的受益者。（译注：天哪本译的粑粑突然变成特权人士了，我是该高兴呢还是该高兴呢？）
Su Maohan, Wave maker3 upvotes by Haidong Zheng, Sam SebastianKhor, and PavelWolkow.Because they are mostly the same deeply inside. Theyshare many the same thoughts with the government. A lot of Chinese people wouldrule others in the same way if they were in charge. Now they are just happilyruled.因为他们内心深处都是一样的。他们和中国政府的观念是一样的。很多中国人，如果他们成为执政者，他们也会这么做。现在他们只是快乐的被统治着。
Joseph Schooling1 upvote by Edward Conway.Because they are not oppressed. Simple.因为他们没有被压迫。就这么简单。
Shunki Kan7 upvotes by Susan Wang, Qing Lian, Yaqian Wang, (more)As a foreigner, I can image the majority of theChinese people you may know, they are students, or graduated students wholiving in a foreign country. They have ulmost no self-dependent livingexperiences in China. Some of them are offspring of China's elites and they arebeneficiaries of the current regime. I mean, how can they know the truedarkness of the Chinese society and how the poor Chinese people feel?作为一个外国人，我可以想象大部分你认识的中国人，他们是生活在国外的大学生或研究生。他们几乎没有在中国独立生活过。有一些人是中国精英的后代，他们是中国现任体制的获益者。我的意思是，他们怎么会了解中国真正的黑暗面，中国的穷人是怎么想的？
Warren SchenckI don't feel oppressed by my regime and yet they areoppressing me. In the US. our government has been oppressive for all of its history.I still believe that it is wonderful to live here and I would never moveanywhere else. The Chinese believe the same thing about their own government.The Chinese know the government might not be perfect but their doing their bestfor the people.
The only criticism I have for the Chinese government is that when theineptitude of the system was displayed for the world to see. When faultyconstruction of schools caused thousands of children to die in the earthquake.The Government tried to cover it up rather than admit it made mistakes andwould commit to putting rules in place to make sure that things like this wouldnever occur again. You see at least here in the US. when mistakes are made theresponsible people are not always brought to justice but rules are put in placeto make it so that mistakes will not happen again.我不觉得我的国家体制在压迫我，虽然它确实在这么做。我们的美国政府在历史上一直是压迫的。但我依然相信这里是美好的，并且不打算搬到任何其他地方去。中国人也是这样相信他们的政府的。中国人知道政府虽然不是完美的，但他们为了自己的人民在尽最大努力。我对中国政府唯一的批评是，当政府失职时，他们应该让全世界看到。在地震中，上千个孩子因为豆腐渣工程死掉。政府试图隐瞒，却不承认错误，并制定规则保证这种错误不再发生。在美国，至少当政府犯错时，并不是责任人都会得到审判，但一定会制定防止这种错误再次发生的规则。
Petr Misan, Investor, Scientist, AmateurPhilosop... (more)The same reason Americans believe that their countryis democratic.
-- because of ideology.跟美国人相信他们的国家是民主的同一个理由 —— 因为意识形态。
Rob James, London2 upvotes by Amy Xiong and David Lam.I think it's because they are used to it. It's ' if you put a frog in boiling water it will jump out, but ifyou cook it slowly from cold it will boil to death'可能是因为他们习惯了。就像温水煮青蛙。
Anonymous1 upvote by Joseph Boyle.Likely because they are all educated to be patriots.Patriots never feel oppressions. Instead the harder the country treats them,the prouder they are, as they can feel the power of the country vividly..
Of course it works even better when people can have the pride without feelingthe pain, like Chinese people living abroad.很可能是因为他们都被教育为了爱国者。爱国者从不感到压迫。反而，国家越强势的对待他们，他们就会感到越自豪，这样他们会生动的感受到国家的力量。
如果只感到自豪，而不用去承受痛苦当然就更好了，就像生活在外国的中国人。
姐夫：我就静静的看着你们装逼。
辛苦了，感谢翻译
辛苦了，感谢翻译
：原文600 million，即60亿，我猜他写错了，也许是6亿600百万就是6亿呀，楼主
坐沙发。这个题目讨论的其实是东方社群主义与西方个人主义的冲突，“政府”、“自由”什么的，不过是符号。&
本帖最后由 ybaijin 于
19:02 编辑 龙腾网
600百万就是6亿呀，楼主龙腾网
重新数了一下确实是，谢谢提醒，楼主又傻逼了。
我可能是太老了……
做为一个国家的政体，如果不能提高生活水平，自由地说话有屁用呢？
还拉！仇恨！政府要他做什么？。。。。。政府喂不饱老百姓了！才会干死他吧！不然吃撑了！~和政府对着干？&
问题是国家好像没压迫我啊！，，，，，另外，不自由，你就去死！，，，，自由虽然很重要！但其实并没有什么卵用！一个并没有什么卵用的东西政府为什么要！限制？？？？完全不能吃，不能喝！又不能拿来发工资！&
中二病还是算了吧，面包是必须的，自由也是必须的，反对政府是必须的，支持政府也是必须的，这才是正常的道理不是吗？&
不自由，毋宁死？真不自由了，你敢死吗？？？&
不自由，毋宁死。其实可以精简为“舍身取义”。╮(╯_╰)╭&
中间有个哥们认为他写的四段话每段值5毛233
不，他是觉得他的四段话物超所值，价值远超两元。“我这两块钱值了”——“付给我这两块钱换我这么给力的话，雇佣者简直太值了”&
整个白人世界里就南非白人看事情最客观，他们经历的最多&
好了，我这两元值了。
---------------------------------
我都复制好了,准备说这茬呢.....&
哈哈，这个Edit的评论很犀利呀
自由地说话明显在任何国家都有限制。
一个政体首先要提高生活水平，然后才是尽可能地容纳不同意见。在此之上，还有一个更基本的限制，就是不能引起国家分裂与民族对立，汗，我都觉得自己这发言有点象五毛党了。不过，即使是最低等级的温饱水准的和平生活与比战乱要强，这就是我的想法。我当然希望在和平环境中，尽可能自由地发表我的看法，我厌恶所有封禁与删贴，但是，我确实只是一个温和改良派，强烈反对任何引起社会动荡的剧烈变革，生命最重，生存权力大于一切其它权力。
楼主辛苦了，只能说中国人更在乎“实质上”的自由
感觉这些人还挺明白的！
7 upvotes by David Lam, Joseph Boyle, Sissi Chen, (more)
Heck, I do. I can't even access Quora without a proxy.How can I not feel oppressed?
But when I am abroad, it's a different thing. Nobody wants others to belittletheir homeland. You should be careful when talking about China with yourChinese friends. It's all too easy to blur the line between talking about asometimes shitty government and hurting the pride of another guy, which isprobably not welcomed. (the same for any other country obviously)龙腾网
我感到压迫了。没有代理器我连Quora都上不了。我怎么能不感到被压迫？
但当我在国外，事情就不一样了。没人喜欢别人轻视他们的祖国。你在与你的中国朋友谈论中国时应当小心。当你在批判政府时，很容易不小心会过了界，伤害了别人的自尊。这是不受欢迎的。（别的国家同样）
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呵呵，右键原帖链接就进去了，还翻墙？ 轮子撒谎跟喝水一样自然
如果是的话 说话就不会这样了 人家只是抱怨连国外不方便就躺枪了&
可能是用的移动的网 移动破网很多网站上不去的&
突然想起广州的垃圾分类，政府和媒体及热心组织和人士的推动下，闹哄哄的搞了一阵子。
结果作用不大，从末端到终端依然照旧。龙腾网
体系和个体认知未能达标。任重道远。
在我们老家，选票=大米+花生油&
噗，垃圾分类就是个笑话，他们环卫工人又把两个垃圾桶倒在一块了。。。。&
quora的翻译都挺有趣的
我在日本工作生活了三年，最近刚回国。
日本也是民主国家，虽然官僚体系很庞杂。
说实话，如果你不去热衷政治，就过日常生活，根本感受不到政府有什么区别。龙腾网
也就只有在选举的那几天，会看到街上拿着大喇叭喊的人。对我一个外国人来说毫无关系，对他们日本人来说，也就是有兴趣的话填张选票，之后也没什么关系了。
而每天每时每刻，都感受到的是人民水平的差异，这个才是实感。你能接触几次政府？或者你天天去跟公务员打交道吗？
但是你天天都会跟社会上的民众接触。最大的落差感受是国民水准和素质的差别，而不是政府。
另外就是关于网络封锁，中国政府封锁了google，facebook，youtube等，这确实限制了自由。但因此与世隔绝？
其实关了一扇门，会开另一扇。
至少在日本，想同步看到最新的美剧，英剧简直是不可能的事情。甚至日本的动漫，中国人比很多日本人还要先看到更新。（很多时候他们得去买dvd才能看到）。
在中国，世界上最新的电视剧，最新的电影，最新的动漫，最新的流行音乐，几乎都是第一时间免费送到各为网民面前。这种“自由”没有几个国家有。
在日本的时候，我需要安装chrome的一个插件，逆翻墙才能在中国的视频j网站看到这些世界各国的最新影视作品。所以说中国的互联网就没有自由也很偏颇。只是限制了某些自由，但是给了你其他的自由。
中国人与世界的距离绝对比日本近得太多。日本是真正生活在蚊帐之中，很多人不清楚外面发生了什么。
之前江南style火遍全球的时候，日本应该是最后一个知道有这么件事情的国家。
而且当年2012世界末日这件事，日本大部分人根本没听说过。这也是很令人震惊的。
所以这很讽刺，没有自由的中国，反倒对地球上的资讯和潮流很了解。
然而现在已经并不是这样了。youku神马的基本上没搜索不到完整的电影电视剧，现在要自由的看必须必须先交会员费。&
本子不少宅男腐女都会翻墙过来看AB站，因为不用花钱就能看新番。。。&
小声点，又便宜就悄悄的占。&
日本民主？这是哪个位面的日本？&
唉，也别高兴太早，现在国内网上的免费资源也是越来越少了，跟前几年不能比。。。&
觉得很自由&&龙腾网
就算不自由 我这个小学生都知道治大国如烹小鲜
怎么能冲动行事
历史上的教训还少吗龙腾网
本帖最后由 stevelawrence 于
03:19 编辑 龙腾网
编辑掉&&别喷 别喷 最近忙
顺便吐槽下 龙腾傻逼也多 （这句还是留着)。
想起一个室友说过的话 自由是什么？自由并不是做自己任何想做的事 而是不做自己讨厌做的事情。。。。
简直好顶赞&
本帖最后由 stevelawrence 于
03:20 编辑
想起一个室友说过的话 自由是什么？自由并不是做自己任何想做的事 而是不做自己讨厌做的事情。。。。
编辑掉 没力嘴炮 我从小爱国爱党
本帖最后由 ybaijin 于
20:55 编辑 龙腾网
感觉这些人还挺明白的！龙腾网
确实，外国醒过来的人越来越多了。龙腾网
所以啊，有些个不省心的人，要理解局座工作的难处。
我不喜欢西方的人醒过来，我到是希望他们觉得中国人和朝鲜人一样，这样才是完美的西方人。
I don't feel oppressed by my regime and yet they areoppressing me. In the US. our government has been oppressive for all of its history.I still believe that it is wonderful to live here and I would never moveanywhere else. The Chinese believe the same thing about their own government.The Chinese know the government might not be perfect but their doing their bestfor the people.龙腾网
The only criticism I have for the Chinese government is that when theineptitude of the system was displayed for the world to see. When faultyconstruction of schools caused thousands of children to die in the earthquake.The Government tried to cover it up rather than admit it made mistakes andwould commit to putting rules in place to make sure that things like this wouldnever occur again. You see at least here in the US. when mistakes are made theresponsible people are not always brought to justice but rules are put in placeto make it so that mistakes will not happen again.龙腾网
我不觉得我的国家体制在压迫我，虽然它确实在这么做。我们的美国政府在历史上一直是压迫的。但我依然相信这里是美好的，并且不打算搬到任何其他地方去。中国人也是这样相信他们的政府的。中国人知道政府虽然不是完美的，但他们为了自己的人民在尽最大努力。我对中国政府唯一的批评是，当政府失职时，他们应该让全世界看到。在地震中，上千个孩子因为豆腐渣工程死掉。政府试图隐瞒，却不承认错误，并制定规则保证这种错误不再发生。在美国，至少当政府犯错时，并不是责任人都会得到审判，但一定会制定防止这种错误再次发生的规则。龙腾网
你实在太逗了，美国的风灾年年有，而且政府还不管灾后重建，和中国政府比，简直是渣渣，你吹个毛线啊。一个土地私有的国家居然要收税，反到土地公有的国家发补贴，有什么好比的。有道防火墙，和美国相比，这算是一种压迫吧，不过翻墙也没意思，因为墙内什么都有，还有字幕，翻出去两眼一抹黑，也没啥意思。只有轮子的新闻看得懂，但是假到吐血的水平，真是醉了。一个8平方的受害者，前一天被坦克压断了双腿，第二天关心抗议人士，又骑着自行车出门了，拥有这么牛逼的双腿，还真是轮子羽化登仙后才有的效果
楼下，看到我说的是什么了吗，我没否认有人受伤和死去。只是陈述这被压断了双腿，第二天还可以骑车，这是神人，这是逗士说谎都说不好，智商堪舆，美国主子就喜欢没脑子的，好控制&
不过其实那会街上真的很乱，还有人烧卡车，一起哄一大堆人乱跑乱挤，踩死几个撞伤几个真不是什么新鲜事&
嗯，其实八平方的时候确实有人因为混乱和拥挤受伤。我小学计算机老师就胳膊粉碎性骨折，据说是装甲车撞的。后来我再也没见他上班。哦，别质疑，我门小学那会市重点 ，二年级就开了计算机课&
为什么没人建议他们去看看中国的门户网站的评论和微博呢？在哪里他们将见到他们前所未见的言论自由。
说个题外话，日本那么排外的国家中国人反而最容易移民成功，就因为入籍考试要记汉字，这对外国人来说是几乎不可能的任务。&
看方块字和网络语言，他们更头痛，看看歪果仁学汉语各种脑袋大的梗&
签名右边那家伙是谁？
政治、法律、道德、和他人的距离等等因素给世界上每一个人都套上了很多隐形的圈圈，所谓的自由就是在这个圈圈里的自由，过界的行为都会被制止。中国和西方的差别就是中国会明确的告诉我们这么个圈圈，告诉我们不要过界，而西方会隐瞒这个圈圈，告诉人民你们是绝对的自由，事实上无论在哪里，过界的行为都会被惩罚。
所以中西方的差别不过就是真诚与伪善的差别。
嘿嘿，这句话徐克老爷子在他的电影黄飞鸿里面早就说过了。西方就是伪善！&
说得好，送小钱钱
中国人最现实，有钱才有自由。
即使是自由也要由我们自己来争取，这些老外别想趁火打劫
政治就是厕所文华
初中的时候老师就告诉过我，所谓的自由也不过是相对的自由，至少现阶段是有一定限制，要么是法律要么是一些公认的准则。比如法律允许你可以在人行道上自由的行走但肯定不会允许在机动车道上自由的乱窜。
“忍受”，呵呵，这一个词就说明了老外骨子里的偏见和装逼
比中宣部战斗力强太多，&里根总统在1980年问美国选民：“你们与比4年前更好吗？”，因此打败了时任总统卡特，因为答案明显是“no”。如果CCP要问中国人“你们比40年前更好了吗？”答案会是一个响亮的“yes”
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