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有人说道教也可以超脱生死轮回，请众师兄来帮我解答一下这对吗
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http://bbs.foyuan.net/thread--1.html这个网址的帖子的第一篇回帖说修成道教的仙道一样可以超越生死，请众师兄看一下并帮我解答
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外道是误认为自己可以长生不老，否则他们也不会去修。
实际上他们的知识有限，没有究竟。 只有信愿念佛求生净土，才是最好出离轮回的方法。
其实很多外道也念南无观世音菩萨，念佛求生才究竟。
不念佛求生净土，外道绝无可能脱离轮回。
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百度里的种种迹象表明，道家也是可以超越生死轮回的，故想和各位师兄讨论一下
我于六月三号20点46分发表了大罗金仙不落轮回的帖子后，感觉各位师兄给我的回答还没能彻底解开我的疑问，为了一探究竟，于是我在百度里分别输入帝释天，玉皇大帝，金仙和大罗金仙四个词汇，结果得到的答案中分别含有下面四段话:
1.民间信仰在佛教传入中国后，因三教合一的倾向，民间常将帝释天等同于道教的玉皇大帝。并以正月初九“天帝诞辰日”当成帝释天的生日。但事实并非如此，帝释天和玉皇大帝并不在同一个界中，帝释天位于忉利天界，玉皇大帝早已脱离轮回，地位有所不同，不可混淆。
2. 典籍记载《玉皇经》讲述了玉帝远古时期“舍身堵北缺，代存万众生”的著名事迹。据《玉皇本行集》记载：光明妙乐国王子舍弃王位，在晋明香严山中学道修真，辅国救民，渡化众生，历亿万劫（所以玉帝的年龄大约等于一百几十亿岁，大概相当于宇宙还未形成时的年代），终为千古一圣—玉皇大帝。是历经万劫亿难 ，千辛万苦，不可思议，按《玉皇经》所载，玉帝的年龄和今天所考证的宇宙的年龄相接近！事实上，玉皇也并不是一般人所理解的一个普通神佛的领袖与三界的主宰，而是依据大道运行而燮理这个宇宙的大圣者。
道教对玉皇大帝来源的阐述。
玉皇大帝存在于始劫之先，本体是三清祖气。道藏《真诰》曰：阴阳待之以分，日月待之以明。早在太极方法之时，玉帝悯惜宇宙混沌不清，气机沿塞，化育难行。曾经化身盘古，成理之正，成气之清，成精之妙，成神之灵。法益三才，角立鼎分。玉帝形化人庄严之身。（光严妙乐国土） 普光明心地。（普明香严山 ） 经三千二百劫而证金仙位。 初八百劫舍国，（化形）以示大道无为化育万物真恒最贵。 次八百劫慈慧，示物灵人神仙圣得道修炼的法则。 再八百劫精智，示大道神圣仙真司法行政之术。 后八百劫舍身，示身法两忘，回归宇宙大一统的必然属性，与道同存的最高逍遥游的境界。 三千二百劫又表示超出三界，了达三乘。生死圆通。又经亿劫化育有情，经纬天宇，无极圣众尊玉皇为太极三洞最高宗主。六合八表最高宗主。玉皇布化开玉匮科，布化行政。传五方诰命，秉教万象，检阅劫数，推运乾坤，主持真宰仙佛的黜陟超证，因缘果报，御摄提格，大荒落界。发无量光明十七种，光孕慈善喜舍，遍照无极世界，大道众生，普沾胜利。化无不化，养育适均。《高上玉皇本行集经》 玉皇即是道体，是神明坚固不坏真空无上法身，在金阕利济群生超升彼岸，普垂教法，修道成真
3.道家仙人的最高境界为大罗仙（一说天仙），道家无金仙,金仙第一次出现,是宋徽宗时,此帝尚道,要化佛为道,因此诏:“佛改号大觉金仙,馀为仙人大士,僧为德士,女冠为女道,尼为女德” 人之修道，必由五行归五老，三花而化三清，始能归原无极本体，而达圆通究竟。道教以修至三花聚顶、五气朝元为最高境界，成为金仙。“金仙”为仙道极品，即是无极金仙，他不生不灭、永不轮回。“三花聚顶、五气朝元”为道家上乘工夫，未能修至如此，则无法进入金仙境界无极圈内.
4.仙的等级依照不同的标准可以作不同的划分。一般说来，其划分成的等级有以下几种。《神仙传》区分仙有九品：第一上 仙，第二次仙，第三太上真人，第四飞天真人，第五灵仙，第六真人，第七灵人，第八飞仙，第九仙人。《抱朴子内篇．论 仙》分天仙、地仙和尸解仙（先死，再蜕变成仙人，一般认为是仙之下者，远不及白日飞升直接成仙）。王重阳等内丹家常将仙分成天仙、地仙、人仙、神仙和鬼仙五个级别。而通常人们习惯把仙分为鬼仙，人仙，地仙，神仙，天仙，大罗金仙六个种类。他们的身份是逐渐升高的。根据佛家的说法只有不断的修炼积德才能得道成仙。这五种也是这样。首先是鬼仙，当修炼到死后，它的精灵没有消失能够长久通灵而存在于鬼道的世界中.。例如众所周知的阎罗王。人仙是指修炼到没有病患延年益寿的地步的仙。这类的代表人物我们也再熟悉不过了他就是济公。地仙是修炼到能腾云驾雾，寒暑不侵，水火不惧具有一定神通一类的仙。代表人物是八仙。天仙是修炼到万寿无疆，具有种种神通。代表人物就很多了，像大家熟悉的太白金星、二郎神等。大罗金仙是修为最高的一类仙，最高能修到形神俱妙，不受生死的拘束，神聚神散操纵自如，天上人间无人能敌。代表人物就是昊天通明宫玉皇大帝 简称玉皇大帝.
种种迹象表明，道家其实也是可以超越生死轮回的。佛说众生平等，其实一切法也是平等的，诸位师兄对道家也不是十分了解，也没有亲身的修道体会，又怎么可以说只有佛教才能超越轮回呢，道教就不行呢？以上仅仅是我个人观点，欢迎诸位师兄和我一起讨论
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所有宗教的目的都是一个。没有分别，你读完其他的教义，和佛经也是殊途同归。
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阿弥陀佛，只有佛教才是最圆满的。虽然在一些形式（表法）上，很多外道与佛教的小乘是一样，但心法是绝对不一样的。佛弟子要警觉，我简单举个例子吧：
& & 同样的向一个乞丐施舍十元钱这个行为（表法），一个施舍的动机是：这么多人看到我施舍给乞丐，他们肯定会说我很善良。另一个施舍的动机是：这个人很可怜，我就帮帮他吧。
& & 大家想一下，这两个人是一样的吗？那个真善？
& & 学而不用，学之何益。学而用之，熟能生巧。 我们从小学习1+1=2,如果我们不去用你会知道这里面还有一个单位条件相同才能成立吗？
你会用1元+1角=2元吗？你能灵活地把单位化为统一的元或者分再进行运算吧
& &有兴趣的同修可以观想一下： 1+1=& && &
& &&&随缘说说自己的看法：很多同修可能没注意自己在修持过程中的是否“如法”的问题。只是想要得到什么利益。然而却没有什么大的感应，甚至因此而失去学佛的信心，我个人的经验是：第一个必须要如法，第二必须要相机。第三不要去想自己要得到什么利益
& & 如法，就是按照佛经里说的去做，看不明白的找相应的大师开示（我一般找已经成就公认的大师开示如印光大师等），
& & 相机：就是要解决什么类型问题，就用什么经、咒或佛号。我举个例，我母亲病了，一个星期用什么药都没效，我就想是业障病，要解决这个问题，因与孝心有关，所以属于地藏菩萨更为相应，所以我学地藏菩萨把我母亲的病痛加在我身上，两天后就好了。我母亲那天很奇怪地对我说，怎么突然间好了呢？但我当晚肚子痛得厉害，我就默念阿弥陀佛连续三晚吧。之后就没有肚痛了。这是我刚学佛时发生的事情。要解决什么问题要去找相应的佛理。
& & 为什么不要去想自己得到什么利益呢？看看上面举的乞丐例子吧，第一个施舍人的想法是为了自己得到一个善良的评价，但不是真善，第二个没想到自己要得什么，只是一颗慈悲心触动他的行为，这才是真正的善。
何者为念？念者：今+心=当下的心。
今出肺腑之言，实望各位有缘同修坚信佛法，在下不便评说外道之高下，但可断言，所有的世间法只有佛法能成就最圆满、最究竟之功德
学佛者不长智慧该反观自身，而非佛言有虚。若反信外道，实是捡了芝麻掉了摩尼宝珠。阿弥陀佛！
阿弥陀佛，若有因以上言论阻碍你修行，令你增添烦恼者，本人在此真诚向你忏悔
愿有缘人，专心学佛。勇进不退，莲池会上来相逢！！！！
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佛学弟子 发表于
最近还在疑惑纠结吗？
& && && && &在道教中修行，如果真的有成就的话，的确可以暂时解脱，所 ...
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問：佛教、道教、儒教有什麼分別？它們是不是一樣？
上人：一個小學課程道德，一個中學課程道德，一個大學課程道德；大學課程道德就是叫你皈依佛法僧三寶，不要把三寶忘了，中學就叫你皈依你自己的精氣神，不要把精氣神耗散了，初學的呢，就叫你把人道好好盡圓滿了它。
問：道教和佛教有什麼不同呢？&&
上人：道教只是一半，佛教是究竟徹底。你明白佛法，不明白道教，這談不到真明白佛法。明白道教，你不明白佛學，那只是一半，只是走一步、二步，一個開始。&&
問：佛教與道教的區分在哪裡？
上人：那你說老年人、壯年人、青年人有什麼分別，儒、釋、道是一家，但一個是小孩子，一個是中年人，一個是老年人，他們能懂彼此的思想嗎？
以上文字摘自宣化上人的金刚棒喝
http://www.drbachinese.org/online_reading/dharma_talks/JinGangBangHe/261-280.htm
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問：符、八卦有沒有效果啊？&&
上人：中國道教、儒教和佛教本來都是一體的，為什麼還要信佛呢？因為道教和儒教，乃至於其他宗教都不究竟；他的法不究竟，佛教是究竟的，我剛才跟你講全體大用﹝究竟就是徹底，儒教很接近佛教﹞。道教的老子，就是佛教的迦葉尊者的化身，孔子是水月童子的化身。&&
以上文字摘自http://www.drbachinese.org/online_reading/dharma_talks/JinGangBangHe/481-500.htm
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南无观世音菩萨！
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《楞严经》卷九 ……从不还天圣道穷者，如是一类，名不回心钝阿罗汉。若从无想诸外道天，穷空不归，迷漏无闻，便入轮转。阿难。是诸天上各各天人，则是凡夫业果酬答，答尽入轮。……
南无楞严会上佛菩萨！
南无阿弥陀佛！
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本论坛信佛，自然相信佛的说法，如果师兄信道，自然相信道教的说法，都是正教，都好。
师兄若信佛，自然不需问，若信道，又何须问。
南无本师释迦牟尼佛。
南无阿弥陀佛。
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把虚构的故事怎么去进行考证？没办法。
南无阿弥陀佛
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是可以不死，还很快乐。& & 但是会有微量的烦恼，比罗汉差点点，出三界差点点。&&没法跟最高境界的佛相比
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看看外国人是如何理解道教的
I, Brian （来自 苏格兰） Question is the title, really - I’m curious what the actual extent of influence Taoism has no Buddhism and Confucianism. On the one hand, Taoism seems to be a fundamental way of looking at the world and reality. Confucianism and Buddhism, however, instead often seem more like philosophies of behaviour. So does Taoism have any real influence in the underlying precepts of the other two? Is Confucianism little more than an ethical code for the non-peasant? Does Buddhism actually lend itself deeply to any principles of Taoism? Simply curious... 问题见标题，我真的很好奇，如果没有佛教和儒家，的实际影响范围有多大。一方面，道教看起来是研究现实世界的基本方法（世界观）。然而，和佛教经常被看作是行事准则（方法论）。那么道教到底有没有受到佛儒两家的潜在影响呢？儒家仅仅是非农阶层的伦理规范吗？佛教有没有吸收道教的部分思想？仅仅是使然…1、samabudhi
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…1、samabudhiI considered myself a Taoist until I became a Buddhist. I still have great faith in the teachings of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu, but Buddhism offers more and is more correct in some areas.The problem with Taoism is that it’s too simple. It’s too fundamental and the gap between understanding and implementing is never really made. The ancients never actually said how one was to accomplish this change in view of the world. They say that Tai Chi and Qi Gung are the methods of Taoism. I have not yet had the opportunity to visit these. But isn’t this the ideal religion. One where practise, culture and way of thinking are all combined into one so much that you would have trouble rooting out what was Taoist and what was Chinese. In my opinion, Taoism is simply Chinese culture and conduct.So without a large scripture, there is little need for study. The ideal of the Taoist is to be a hermit. Clearly the growth of such a religion, if at all, would be about as slow as waterfalls move backward.When Confucianism met with Taoism, they both competed for social positions since they had taken on cultural significance. Taoism took on cultural significance, and so lost it’s philosophical roots. The point of debate between Taoists and Confucians is mainly around ethics and etiquette.Confucianism does not share the deep insight into the nature of things as Buddhism or Taoism does (which they incidently agree on). It is very flat. But Buddhism has not only metaphysical insight, but also very particular ethics which are indelibly linked to everything else in the religion. Despite it’s flexibility, it clashes with Confucianism.I am in Taiwan now, and Taoism and Buddhism are both very well represented here. They live side by side. But in the time when Buddhism met Taoism, the result was Chan(Zen) Buddhism. Buddhism, being the bigger of the two and very open to ideas, spread amongst traditionally Taoist communities. So the people began to practise Buddhist meditation in a Taoist way. Very neat, very ordered, very simple.In conclusion, I would say that Taoism in it’s present form over Taiwan has nothing to do with Lao Tzu or what he said. It’s about simple temples and is almost entirely a cultural phenomena rather than a religion. It has had as little effect on Buddhism as Paganism had on Christianity when it came bouncing though all of Europe. There are references to world trees and the Christmas tree has become quite popular, but the influence was mainly cultural. 在我成为佛教徒之前，我一直信奉道教。我对老庄的教导仍然推崇备至，但在某些方面，佛教给了我更多启示，也更接近真理。 道家思想实在是太简洁了。它告诉你最基本的原理，至于如何领悟与实践则看个人造化。事实上，古人从不谈论如何改变一个人的世界观。他们说太极和气功都是修道之法，但我还没有机会去了解它们。这不是理想的宗教。道教如同迷雾一般，修习、文化和思维方式合而为一，而中国人身处其间，怡然自得，想要找到他们不是一件容易的事。在我看来，道教就是中国人的文化与行为。没有大量的经文，也就没有研究的必要。道教徒的理想是成为隐士。所以，如果想要深彻地了解这种宗教，就会像瀑布一样缓慢地向后移动。当儒家遭遇道教，二者为了社会地位而彼此竞争，直到他们显现出文化意义。道教有了文化意义，也就阻断了哲学的本源。道教徒与儒家学派辩论的焦点主要是道德与礼节。儒家思想没有像道教与佛学一样对自然界深刻的洞察力（三者偶尔会达成一致）。儒家秉承中庸，而佛教不仅仅是形而上的见解，它还是十分特别的伦理规范，隶属于佛教范畴的一切事物都会遵循它。尽管佛教很灵活，但仍与儒家思想相左。我目前在台湾，这里的道家和佛教都很有代表性。它们相伴共处，当佛教遭遇道教时，留下来的都是禅宗。佛教略为强势且思想开放，在传统的道教社区蔓延开来。所以人们开始用道家的方法来练习佛教的冥想。优雅，有序，简洁。 总之，我想说道教在台湾的存在形式与老子以及他所说的无关。道家更像是一种文化现象和简单的庙宇，而不是宗教。它对佛教的影响不大，对于基督教来说是异端，在传到欧洲时受到了极大的反弹。至于世界之树，最流行的是圣诞树，但影响主要在文化方面。（译者注：最后一句话值得玩味，这里的’世界之树’应该是指对世界影响深远的宗教，发帖人是欧洲人，推崇的无疑是基督教。不过’影响主要在文化方面’也点明了基督教在世界范围内的没落。就如同作者评价道教所说的，’道教有了文化意义，也就阻断了哲学的本源’。同理，基督教也是。若干年后，基督教的宗教影响可能会变得微乎其微，取而代之的是文化属性，到那时，可怜的神父们除了虚无缥缈的上帝和娈童的癖好之外，一无所有）
2、Zazen （来自 康涅狄格州）"On the one hand, Taoism seems to be a fundamental way of looking at the world and reality." 一方面，道教看起来是看待世界和现实的基本方法。（引用）whered you get this idea? understand the goal of a taoist is to merge with the cosmos, or unified cosmic energy, this is accomplished through sitting meditation and through the use of visualization. There are many misunderstood and debased forms of taoism that people get confused by, such as alchemical scriptues used to describe methods of unifying with the cosmos. Understand when taoists masters used alchemical scriptures to describe methods of cultivation they werent implying sexual practices, or golden elixirs or magic pills, in fact the masters looked down on these methods.as far as the 3 religions have influenced each other can be seen in their respective philosophys as they are often very similar, metaphysically they are describeing the same state of realityas for theyre differences well, for one most taoists are traditionally hermits or reclusive, Buddhists on the other hand embrace life, as do confucianiststaoists use methods such as sitting meditation, which is obviously found in buddhism aswell, but there method of meditation is usually through some form of visualization, coupled with some chi kung exercisesreally though, the similaritys between buddhism and taoism(espcially chan, because of the influence of shaolin and wudang schools) are very very close, infact some people go as far as to say chan was an invention of taoism(which preceed ed buddhism in china)confucianisms effect on the previously mentioned religions comes in many forms, such as the commentary of confucius and his ten wings in the I-Ching, which obviously has had an effect on buddhism and taoism respectively. then there is the basic knowledge that is transmitted between the schools, the moral and ethical modes of conduct, and how they relate to society. i personally wouldnt go as far to say that confucianism influenced the latter to much, more so they influenced confucianism, but its give an take in that they are all similar since they are all chinesechan is chinese, taoism is chinese and confucianism is chinese, therefore, the similaritys are close, but the relationship of confucianism with buddhism and taoism isnt as strong as the relationship of chan and Taoism.its noteworthy to mention also that we should be labeling "buddhism" with chan, since..buddhism as a whole hasnt been effected by taoism that much, really chan is more appropriate since even though taoists and such visited india and tibet etc, the effect isnt as large in sharing of ideas and philosophys as it is with the chan sect. amitabha 你的这些想法从何得来？道教徒的目标是融入宇宙，通过打坐和心生境象来达到天人合一。人们由于困惑而对道教有诸多误解与贬低，比如炼金术的咒语过去经常被描述成统一宇宙的方法。（’统一宇宙’是指物质可以互相转化）当道教徒的长老们使用炼金术的咒语来描述交媾的方法时，他们并不是在暗示性行为、长生不老药或不可思议的药丸，实际上长老们对这些方法嗤之以鼻。三个宗教互相影响，并在它们各自独立的哲学体系中显现出来，所以它们看起来十分相似，它们用形而上学的观点来描述同一样事物。至于它们的差异，举个例子，大多数道教徒都是传统的隐士或隐居者，另一方面，佛教徒和儒家弟子是积极入世。道教徒使用打坐的方法来进行冥想，佛教徒也是如此，但是道教经常是通过心灵将外界事物具象化和一些气功练习来完成的。尽管道家和佛教有很多相似之处，（特别是禅，因为少林和武当派的影响）事实上有一些人说禅是道教发明的（中国的佛教才是开创者）。儒家学说也影响着之前提到的两个宗教，比如孔夫子对《易经》的注释和十翼，（译者注：《易经》分为’经’和’传’两部分，’经’是原文，’传’是孔子为《易经》做的注，’传’包括十个部分，所以又称十翼。）很明显道家和佛教分别受到了影响。然后（儒家的）基本知识、伦理道德方法的引导以及如何处世等学说在各个派别中传播。我不会说儒家思想对后者的影响更大，因为它们也影响着儒家学说，但要明确一点，它们都很相似，因为它们都属于中国。禅是中国的，道教是中国的，儒家思想是中国的，因此它们非常相似。但是儒家思想与佛道两家的联系不如禅与道教的紧密。 值得一提的是，我们应该给禅贴上“佛教”的标签，因为…总的来说，佛教受道家学说的影响并不大，即使道教徒来到印度和西藏，影响也不像共享思维那么大，（译者注：共享思维是指佛道的共通之处很多，但道教还是不会被佛教徒轻易接受），实际上禅宗是这里的哲学。阿弥陀佛…
4、samabudhi "On the one hand, Taoism seems to be a fundamental way of looking at the world and reality."whered you get this idea? understand the goal of a taoist is to merge with the cosmos, or unified cosmic energy, this is accomplished through sitting meditation and through the use of visualization. There are many misunderstood and debased forms of taoism that people get confused by, such as alchemical scriptues used to describe methods of unifying with the cosmos. Understand when taoists masters used alchemical scriptures to describe methods of cultivation they werent implying sexual practices, or golden elixirs or magic pills, infact the masters looked down on these methods. 一方面，道教看起来是看待世界和现实的基本方法。你的这些想法从何得来？道教徒的目标是融入宇宙，通过打坐和心生境象来达到天人合一。人们由于困惑而对道教有诸多误解与贬低，比如炼金术的咒语过去经常被描述成统一宇宙的方法。（’统一宇宙’是指物质可以互相转化）当道教徒的长老们使用炼金术的咒语来描述交媾的方法时，他们并不是在暗示性行为、长生不老药或不可思议的药丸，实际上长老们对这些方法嗤之以鼻。（引用）I think Brian is talking about the original Taoist Philosophy of Lao Tzu. There is no meditation in this. It is about changing the way we look at things and respond to events. If we see everything as the interplay of Yin and Yang, we will not deviate from the non-differentiated state. Since this is the nature of the cosmos, we would be aligning ourselves with it. The ultimate message of the Lao Tzu is balance. 我觉得楼主讨论的是老子的原始道家理论，并没有提及冥想，是转变我们看待事物的方法以及对事件的反映。如果我们把所有事物都看做是相辅相成的阴与阳，我们就不会偏离’非分化状态’（阴阳互涵，你中有我，我中有你）。因为这是宇宙的本质，我们要同它步调一致（天人合一的思想）。老子的终极预言就两个字——平衡。
5、Zazen yes but there was no such thing as taoism before lao tzu, taoism as a spiritual path is infact not soley based on lao tzus teachings. also, lao tzu philosophy is not and cannot be called solely that, we dont know everything about him, there is much more to him that we know, i believe anyway"can you keep the soul always concentrated from straying? can you regulate the breath and become soft and pliant like an infant? can you clear and get rid of the unforseen and be free from fault? can you become enlightened and penetrate everywhere without knowledge?" this quote contains more then just the obvious, i believe lao tzu performed some manner of meditation, this doesnt necessarily mean zazen but it imho definitely hints to a mediative state of mindalso, it is obvious the effect of lao tzus teachings had on wudang martial arts, anyone whos serious about chinese martial arts knows what im talking about, when i relate this quote to that subject.amitabha 没错，可是在老子之前并不存在道家思想，道教实际上是一条精神之路，而不是建立在老子学说之上的空中楼阁。（这段话的意思应该是说，即便没有老子，也会有别人建立一种类似的学说）当然，老子的学说不是也不能被称作空中楼阁，我们对他一无所知，无论如何我都相信他的身上蕴藏着无尽的智慧。“你能一直集中精神，而不使其涣散偏离吗？你能调节呼吸，变成婴儿一般的轻柔和顺从吗？你能摆脱不可预知的东西，不受失误的影响吗？你能变得心明澄澈，无需借助知识也能游刃有余吗？”（译者注：这段是《道德经》第十章，“载营魄抱一，能无离乎？专气致柔，能如婴儿乎？涤除玄览，能无疵乎？明白四达，能无知乎。”原文还有两句话，发帖人没有写）引用的内容意思很明确，我觉得老子是在描述冥想的方法，这并不意味着是禅宗的打坐，不过恕我直言，这明确地表达了精神的寂融状态。（译者注：寂融是’寂照双融’，所谓寂照双融就是’正定’，正定就是入禅）当然，老子学说对武当武术的影响颇大，当我扯到这个话题的时候，懂得中国武术的人都知道我在说什么，阿弥陀佛。
6、I, Brian My understanding was that Taoism is effectively a form of animism practised by the Chinese peasant classes for millenia - and that the part that Lao Zi actually played in that was to bring together aspects of that belief into writing under his own direction, rather than actually invent the actual belief system itself. 千年以降，道教是一种被中国平民阶层所掌握的万物有灵论，老子是将教义的各个方面汇集起来，按照自己的理解写就而成，而不是发明了信仰体系本身。7、samabudhiOne of the biggest problems with Tao scriptures is they were written in a language which is so old and misunderstood that we have had to guess at half of what is being said. The translation I have of verse 10 goes like this:Pacifying the agitated material soul and holding to oneness: Are you able to avoid separation? Focusing your energy on the release of tension: Can you be like an infant? In purifying your insight: Can you un-obstruct it? Loving the people and ruling the state: Can you avoid over-manipulation? In opening and closing the gate of Heaven: Can you be the female? In illuminating the whole universe: Can you be free of rationality? Give birth to it and nourish it.Produce it but don’t possess it.Act without expectation.Excel, but don’t take charge.This is called Mysterious Virtue. Remember that when Buddhism arrived in China, all it’s ideas proliferated into the minds of those who would continue the Tao teachings. It’s no surprise that it contains ter***ike ‘regulate the breath’ and ‘enlightenment’ (which is clearly a Buddhist influence.) The Greek philosophers had one approach. The Indian mystics another. I think Lao Tzu and the people who lived at that time had yet another. This is what I think happened. There was Shamanism. The use of herbs and ‘alchemy’ was a major part of that, much like the Shamanism which continues today in Mongolia and Buryat populations of Siberia. Then Lao Tzu came along and got everyone thinking all abstract like in modern China. The art of mind-altering entheogens was lost as emphasis was placed on abstract thinking and not experience. Sure Lao Tzu’s aim was experience. But when something gets put in writing, it loses a certain quality, it goes stale, and people think of it as just an idea.Also is India. It is pretty much accepted that what the Rig Veda refers to as Soma, was in fact the Amanita Muscaria mushroom which is still used today in Shaman cultures. But the hunter-gatherer was turning into the farmer and once again the tradition of taking entheogens was lost to, in this case, meditation.So alchemy in Taoism wasn’t a debased form, it was lost art. （回复5号评论）道家经典的最大问题之一就是他们书写用的语言既古老又晦涩难懂，我们不得不去猜另一半含义。道德经第十章我的译本是这样翻译的：“载营魄抱一，能无离乎？专气致柔，能如婴儿乎？涤除玄览，能无疵乎？爱国治民，能无为乎？天门开阖，能为雌乎？明白四达，能无知乎。生之畜之。生而不有，为而不恃，长而不宰，是谓玄德。”（与5号评论相比，虽然都是道德经第十章的译文，但明显差别很大）请记住，当佛教传到中国的时候，迅速地占据了仍在继承道家学说的人的思想。这不奇怪，因为佛教自身具有’调气’和’教化’的作用。（显然这是佛教的影响）希腊哲学家有他们的方法，印度的神秘主义者也有，老子和生活在那个时代的人则有另外一种。萨满教。草药和炼丹术是其重要组成部分，与现在西伯利亚的蒙古和布里亚特人流传的萨满教一脉相承。（译者注：布里亚特，俄罗斯联邦成员国；布里亚特人是蒙古人的一支，居住在西伯利亚南部地区贝加尔湖以北与色楞格河一带）老子也被他们接受，每个人都学会思考抽象的东西，就像现代的中国一样。宗教致幻的艺术已经失传，原因很可能是注重抽象思维而忽视了实践。老子的目的就是实践。但当写下来的时候，丢失了某些信息，变得过时，然后人们认为这只是想当然罢了。印度也是如此。《梨俱吠陀》中所提到的苏摩酒其实就是毒蝇伞蘑菇，时至今日仍在萨满文化中流传。但狩猎者变成了农夫，在这种情况下，传统的致幻仪式再一次败给了冥想。（译者注：《梨俱吠陀》是印度宗教经典，其中所提到的‘苏摩酒’是婆罗门教仪式中的饮料，取自某种至今未知的植物（或真菌）的汁液。）所以，道教的炼金术不是小把戏，而是失落的艺术
8、Zazen the words arent hard to understand, they expound the same message, its all relative to me. i disagree strongly with the psychedelic substance and such aproach, because..well i know better, but those things and other debased acts like i mentioned above were more low level practices, not the true tao. the alchemical texts describe in detail methods of spiritual cultivation, you just need to be able to understand ancient chinese way of speech..which is difficult if you dont study it actively. but thats what masters are for anyway…amitabha 语句并不难懂，他们解释相同的章节，对我来说有参考价值。我对于迷幻的物质和方法不敢苟同，因为…我比他们更清楚，但是这些和我之前提到的低劣的艺术都是低层次的实践，与真正的道相去甚远。炼金术的书籍详细描述了修身养性的方法，你只要能理解古汉语就可以了…如果你不下功夫研究，理解起来也很困难。无论如何都要精通…阿弥陀佛9、Vajradhara （来自 马里兰州）I think Brian is talking about the original Taoist Philosophy of Lao Tzu. There is no meditation in this. It is about changing the way we look at things and respond to events. If we see everything as the interplay of Yin and Yang, we will not deviate from the non-differentiated state. Since this is the nature of the cosmos, we would be aligning ourselves with it. The ultimate message of the Lao Tzu is balance. 我觉得楼主讨论的是老子的原始道家理论，并没有提及冥想，是转变我们看待事物的方法以及对事件的反映。如果我们把所有事物都看做是相辅相成的阴与阳，我们就不会偏离非分化状态（阴阳互涵，你中有我，我中有你）。因为这是宇宙的本质，我们要同它步调一致（天人合一的思想）。老子的终极预言就两个字——平衡。Namaste Samabudhi, thank you for the post.well... the Tao Te Ching does include meditative practices as inherited from the Nei-yeh, which was written mid 4th century B.C.E and, along with the Yin Convergence Classic, is considered to be one of the primary sources of Classical Taoism. most of the meditational techniques and so forth are found in the later T’ai-P’ing ching (Scripture of Grand Tranquility). 谢谢你的回帖。（合十礼）道德经的确包括冥想练习，继承自公元前4世纪中期写成的《管子·内业篇》，此外《阴符经》被看作是经典道教思想的主要来源之一。大多数的冥想方法在后来的《太平经》中被发现。（译者注：《内业》在精气说的基础上系统地阐述了中国古代气功学的基本原理，建立了最早的气功学理论体系；《阴符经》是唐朝著名道士李筌在河南省境内的登封嵩山少室虎口岩石壁中发现的，具体成书年份不详；《太平经》以阴阳五行解释治国之道，宣扬散财就穷、自食其力，据传为东汉末年于吉所作）
10、samabudhi Meditation! In the Tao Te Ching? I’d like to see that if you have a copy, please. The Yin Convergence Classic? Never heard of it. I really only know of the Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Lieh Tzu.My understanding was that Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu formed the core of the philosophy, and I have yet to see meditation mentioned obviously in either of them. Sitting meditation and visualisation were mentioned by Zazen. If this is the meditation you’re refering to then I disagree. If you’re talking about contemplation, well then what culture didn’t have.I can’t speak for what happened after these philosophers, so I won’t say meditation was not used in later Taoism, but there is no step by step instruction on how to meditate in any of the early philosophers writings. Not even a mention.Remember that such instructions, if they did in fact exist, would most likely be guarded by the intellectual few (who could read) and not make their way to the peasant population. It’s like thinking that everyone in India is as interested in the Upanishads as the scholars/practitioners who wrote them. Peasants in these days were really, very peasantish. They knew NOTHING.The general level of religious insight in rural India is actually very low. They are superstitious. They place some flowers and goo on a linga, say a few chants and that’s that. Gods appeased. The Brahmins are/were the learned ones. 请注意，我们讲的是《道德经》。如果你有拷贝，我倒是很想看看。至于《阴符经》，恕我孤陋寡闻，我只知道老子、庄子和列子。在我看来，老子和庄子创立了道教思想的核心，而他们都没有提及过冥想。打坐和正定是被禅宗所提及的。如果你指的是这种冥想，那么我不同意。如果你要探讨冥想，就要弄清楚它是属于哪个文化的。我无从知晓在这些哲人之后发生了什么，所以我不会说冥想没有被用于后来的道教，但是在早期哲学著作中，没有人对如何进行冥想加以详细描述。甚至没有提及。请记住，如果它们确实存在，很有可能被少数聪慧之人（可以读懂的）所持有，并且不会向农民阶层传播。这就好比印度的普通人一个个以专家学者自居，热衷于研究《奥义书》（婆罗门教的经典之一）。在这期间，农民们有心无力，他们一无所获。 在印度农村，宗教见解的水平实际上非常低。这是迷信。他们在林伽（婆罗门教的男性生殖器像）上放置鲜花和水果，唱一些经文什么的。诸神得以满足，婆罗门都是博学之辈。11、Abogado del Diablo （来自 德克萨斯）I think Taoism is the essential "cosmic mystical experience" laid almost completely bare. Buddhism clothes that experience in some metaphor. Other traditions add a lot more metaphor - often with the metaphor transplanting the experience it points to until it is almost unrecognizable without knowing what one is looking for.I find a shared description of human experience in Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity and other sources as well. The clarity of Taoism and the poetry of Christian mythology have made for a nice complement to one another for me. 我认为道教是“对神秘宇宙的探索”的集大成者，揭示了宇宙的本质。佛教只是披上了某种隐喻的外衣。其他传统增加了更多的隐喻——通常隐喻被移植到经验之上，如果一个人不知道他所探求的到底是什么，就很难参透其中玄机。我发现道教、佛教、基督教是对人类经验的描述，当然其它宗教也是如此。对我来说，道教的澄澈（思想）和基督教的神话诗歌是对彼此的补充。
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12、theocritus Yes, they are connected. I believe all religions and philosophies of living (like Taoism) are striving for the same thing, even if they don’t know it. Some will always see parallels between them and others will not.For me Taoism is my path because it is the most correct one for me. Is Taoism the most correct? Yes, just as much as Catholicism is the most correct one. The end goal we are all looking for is ultimately found within. To categorize and define the goal causes it to lose meaning. Categories and definitions are a product of man.My internal search has brought me to Taoism. Reading the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu was my starting point. After that, the search is within my "self". 是的，它们之间互相关联。我认为所有关于生命的宗教和哲学（比如道教）都是为了相同的目标，即使它们还在探索之中。有些宗教和其它宗教没有交集，另外一些则不一定。对我来说，道教是最合适的求道之路。道教是最合适的吗？是的，就像天主教一样。我们将会在它们中间找到终极的’道’。不要对’道’进行人为地分类，这样会使其失去意义。我在自我审视的带领下找到了道教。最初接触的是《道德经》和《庄子》，剩下的则需要靠“自我”思索。13、SnoopyWhen talking of Taoism, I think it’s important to discriminate between philosophical Taoism (Daoism, quietism) and religious Taoism. The philosophy is that of Lao Tzu etc, whereas the religious Taoism (with all the trappings of a religion) is concerned with attempting to elongate life to the point of immortality (amongst other things). I would suspect that Taoism had little effect on C I think from my reading of Taoist books, they are usually critical / dismissive of Confucius. I don’t think it’s agreed that Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Lieh Tzu even existed, or not as the individual authors of the works ascribed to them. However, their philosophy can be seen as similar to Buddhism, particularly zen. But here is another problem: is zen the same as Zen Buddhism?There is a book called The Tao of Zen (by Ray Grigg) that sets out to say that zen is really Taoism in the disguise of B remove 2000 years of Buddhist accretion from Zen Buddhism and what lies underneath is Taoism. 我们讨论道教的时候，必须区分道教的哲学范畴和宗教范畴。老子他们探讨的是道教的哲学范畴，而道教的宗教范畴则是试图把生命延长至不朽。我认为道教对儒家思想的影响微乎其微；从我读过的道教书籍可以看出，他们对儒家思想是持批判甚至蔑视的态度。我认为如果老子、庄子和列子还活着，他们是不同意（批判儒家）的，或者不能因为他们是作者，就把（批判儒家）的责任算在他们身上。然而他们的理论被看做与佛教相类似，特别是禅。这里又有一个问题：禅就是佛教的禅宗吗？有一本书叫做《禅之道》，作者是Ray Grigg，他认为禅是名副其实的道家思想，只是被伪装成了佛教；佛教在2000年前衍生出了禅宗分支，而它的本质其实是道教
14、Vajradhara you are correct, the Taoist schools were generally dismissive of the Confucian model, especially when Confucianism was made the official religion of the empire and some texts directly comment upon K’ung Fu Tze himself. i have a book which describes a meeting between a Taoist wizard and K’ung Fu Tze and, from the Tao point of view, it was a thorough smashing of the Confucian ideal.Zen is actually a Japanese transliteration of the Chinese term Ch’an from the school of Ch’an Buddhism. in point of fact, this term is meant to describe the primary mode of practice of this school, namely sitting meditation with an emphasis on Samatha practice.the Ch’an school of Buddhism arose in China as an amalgam of Taoist and Buddhist thought and, as such, we can find many "catch" phrases which are particular to certain schools of thought. one that is often seen is: "Special transmission outside of Doctrine." which is a common phrase to be found in the Complete Reality schools of Taoism.it is certainly true that Buddha Dharma influenced the Taoist schools a great deal. it was only after the arrival of the Buddha Dharma that the Taoist schools started to build monasteries and so forth and to make a systematic method of praxis.to quote a rather famous Chinese Buddhist.. "of course the Chinese mix it together, look at what we have to work with.. Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism.. it is we take what we want and leave the rest." 你说的没错，道教并不怎么待见儒家思想，特别是当儒家成为帝国的正统思想之后，一些文章的矛头直指孔子，根据道家的观点，它们彻底颠覆了儒家思想。实际上，禅（zen）是日本对中国禅宗中的禅（chan）的音译，这个术语恰如其分的说明了禅宗的主要修习之法，也就是的打坐冥想，着重于对三昧的练习。（译者注：三昧也就是梵语’三摩地’的音译，止息杂念，使心神平静，是佛教重要的修习之法） 佛教的禅宗是作为道教的衍生物（原文是amalgam汞化物，炼丹的副产品）出现在中国的，就佛教本身而言，我们可以发现有很多’撞车’的短语，特别是对于某些思想学派。当人们在道教的全真派中发现某条短语，这就是“学说之间的特殊传递”。毫无疑问，佛教对道家学派的影响很大。那就是在佛教被引进之后，道教修建了很多道观，完成了系统的实践方法。中国的佛教更有名…“当然，中国人把它们糅合起来，看看我们是怎么做的…道教、佛教和儒家…就好比你的沙拉台，可以拿你想要的，把其他的留下。”15、Blizzardry （来自 苏格兰）Yeah, in a history way, Islam and Christianity and Judaism are really connected, but in a beliefs way, they’re incompatible. Was it Ishmael or Isaac? Jesus or someone not yet arrived? Of course, they’re all talking about having had direction from a monotheistic deity (is that bad grammar?) experience, but for some reason the Pentacostals won’t admit that the Sufis are both filling their heads with the presence of God through singing and dancing...The enlightenment religions, like taoism or buddhism may have had separate origins, but it always seems to me they’re talking about the same thing, and even though meditation practise and philosophy differ, you can see that they’re all talking about the same thing. You find it on a mountaintop, I find it eating and drinking with my friends, but the awakeness and fitting your personal life-path with the flow going on "within and without you". They seem to me to be one and the same.Actually, deep down, an experience of the divine is the same whoever feels it, Moses, Buddha or John Lennon. 从历史的角度来说，伊斯兰、基督教和犹太教互相之间也有联系；但在信仰上，他们势如水火。是以赛玛利还是艾萨克，这是一个问题。（译者注：亚伯拉罕是伊基犹三教共同的先知，以赛玛利Ishmael和艾萨克Isaac是他的儿子，伊斯兰教认为他们的先知穆罕默德是Ishmael的后代，也有人说穆罕默德是Isaac的后代，但穆斯林不予承认，这也就是伊斯兰和犹太教的区别。）耶稣和其他人没有到吗？当然他们讨论的是一神论，要不是因为某些原因，圣灵降临节也不会被承认，苏菲教徒们用唱歌和跳舞的方式让上帝出现在他们的脑子里。像道教和佛教这种启蒙宗教有着不同的起源，但就我而言，它们探讨的目标是一致的，尽管冥想修习和哲学不同，这只是殊途同归罢了。你可能要一个人登上山顶时才会领悟，而我只要和朋友们吃着火锅唱着歌就参透了，但是你的觉悟和所选择的生命之路一定会伴随着“内外由我，随心而动”。对我来说，它们是合二为一的。其实，在内心深处，神的指引和某些人的感觉是一致的，摩西、佛和约翰·列侬。
16、公元800年左右，佛教传入西藏，而禅宗在5或6世纪就开始演化。如果佛教和道教之间有联系，那么涉及到藏传佛教和禅宗的时候就有些迟了。释迦摩尼（乔达摩Guatama是释迦摩尼的本名）很有可能把道教作为发展自身理论的起点，很可能经人介绍释迦摩尼才接触到了道教。17、seattlegal I wonder if the Taoist teaching of wu-wei might have had an influence/connection with Buddha’s concept of nibbana, and cessation? （回复16号评论）我好奇的是道教所倡导的’无为’对佛教的’涅盘’和’寂灭’有什么影响？18、DrumR （来自 落基山脉）These are my ramblings on the matter...The Way and its Virtue contains much concerning inter-relational philosophy. Man to nature, man to himself, and man to other men (society). Unfortunately the Tao Teh Ching is not a "HOWTO" or "Idiots Manual" for it presumes that one has mastered the basic prerequisites of the time. The Tao is for all strata of society and/or lack thereof.Much of the prerequisites, alluded to above, to the study of the Tao have been lost/destroyed in the mists of time and history yet both the I Ching and the Art of War have survived and are, to me, most important to the study of the Tao.Confucius dotes on the concept of the "Superior/Virtuous Man" thereby creating an artificial hierarchal layer contributing to the stratification of a society by providing support for a class-based society. The superior man concept is but one of the points that Lau Tzu and Confucius are strongly in disagreement.Buddhism reads more like a introductory user’s manual and portions of the dialogs may be seen as a sort of a "Taoism for Idiots" with much blather and "self-serving advertisement" inserted.The Indian Buddhism was "cleaned up" by putting it through the "Chinese Laundry" which then removed much of the fluff and non-essentials, re-packaged it for re-distribution and re-labeled as Ch’an. Ch’an was then shipped southward into Korea where it underwent some minor, but important changes, and thence exported to Japan where again the Customs Agents (cultural censors) cut and pasted to their delight and called it Zen. A note on Vegetarianism and B Kipling remarks on the fact, detrimentally, that Buddhist were meat-eaters during his tenure in India!Q. Is Confucianism little more than an ethical code for the non-peasant?A. To my mind, Confucianism is little more than a Civil Servant or employee’s "don’t make waves" manual. It has its place and the early British Society just fell in love with Confucius for it fit within the context their social pattern so well. This is not to say that the philosophy of Confucius has no value, more that it misses the point quite often in large part because of its fundamentally flawed premise of Superiority. Consider for a moment the contradiction of "being humble in the knowledge of one’s superiority over others."I find it interesting to note that Confucius undertook a study of the I Ching in his 50’s and remarked most enthusiastically in favor concerning it.Q. Does Buddhism actually lend itself deeply to any principles of Taoism? A. I believe that Buddhism has its place for the Westerner engaged in the study of the Tao due to its verbosity concerning many aspects of the Eastern Philosophies. I find that the "Twin Verses" section of the Dhammapada especially useful. Ch’an and Zen, being influenced by Taoism, also have their utility. I personally refer to Buddhism as the "Westerner’s Tool-Kit" to assist in the understanding of the Tao. Buddhism may contribute somewhat to fill the void of those "lost prerequisites" mentioned earlier. 我也来谈谈自己的看法。‘道’与‘德’包括很多互相联系的哲学。人类之于自然，人类之于自身以及人类之间的关联（社会）。《道德经》不是一本‘使用说明’或者‘傻瓜手册’，除非有人能精通所处时代的基本预备知识。道教适用于社会各个阶层，而没有道教的特定阶层。 大部分先决条件之前已经提过，关于道的研究已经迷失/湮灭在了时间和历史的迷雾之中，《易经》和《孙子兵法》得以流传至今，对我来说，最重要的还是研究道。孔子推崇的是“君子/仁者”的概念，从而人工地创造出一个以阶级为基础的社会体系，并按照不同的阶级进行社会分层。君子的概念是老子和孔子的主要分歧之一。佛教读起来更像是一份用户使用手册和谈话部分，喋喋不休的废话，插入了’自私的广告’，与高深的道教相比，充其量只能被白痴读懂。印度的佛教被送到’中国洗衣店’进行清洗，去除了多余的杂质和不必要的东西，经过重新分配并贴上标签之后，变成了禅宗。（这句话是说佛教被中国文化批判地吸收并升华成了基于本土文明的新的流派）然后禅宗被传往朝鲜，在进行了很小的修正之后，又漂洋过海前往日本，遭遇了海关（文化审查），按照他们的意愿进行修修剪剪，并被命名为禅（zen）。 在素食主义者和佛教的笔记中，吉卜林曾回忆道：在他的任期内，印度的佛教徒是食肉的！（译者注：吉卜林，英国小说家、诗人，出生在孟买，曾在印度工作生活过一段时间。）问：儒家仅仅是非农阶层的伦理规范吗？ 答：依我之见，儒家思想仅仅是对士大夫阶层的约束，是用来防止’礼乐崩坏’的。儒家思想和早期的英国社会打得火热，因为这很适合他们的社会结构。也不是说孔子的学说毫无价值，只是因为自身缺陷而在某些方面不得要领。思虑良久，我反对’在知识层面超越他人就是谦虚’。我感兴趣的是，孔子在50岁的时候承担起了对《易经》的研究，并且满腔热情的添加了许多关于易的注疏。问：佛教有没有吸收道教的部分思想？ 答：我相信对于研究道教的西方人来说，就冲着佛教对东方哲学的絮絮叨叨，也应占有一席之地。我发现法句经的’双品’就特别有用。（译者注：法句经Dhammapada，是从佛经中录出的偈颂集，每两句互为对称，也就是‘双品’）禅（chan）和禅（zen）都受到了道教的影响，所以它们还有点用。我更喜欢把佛教看做’西方人的工具箱’，用来帮助理解道教。佛教可能会填补一些先前提到的’失去先决条件’的不足之处。
我能告诉你我是标准的十五字吗！大家跟我一起月抛吧！看不见我看不见我看不见我！！！别粉我，我已经设置了禁止关注了，如果你还是非要试试的话，就由你去吧，你一定不会成功的楼主最帅汉语八级考试： 领导：你这是什么意思？小明：没什么意思，意思意思。领导：你这就不够意思了。小明：小意思，小意思。领导：你这人真有意思。小明：其实也没有别的意思。领导：那我就不好意思了。小明：是我不好意思。 提问：以上“意思”分别是什么意思？我一直以为，这世界上的好男人不多，数来数去也就文章，黄海波，我。没想到他们一个出轨，一个嫖娼，原来都在演戏！这太让人失望了。现实中，只剩下一个小小的我，还在悲伤而孤独地坚守。
19、Snoopy The Indian Buddhism was "cleaned up" by putting it through the "Chinese Laundry" which then removed much of the fluff and non-essentials, re-packaged it for re-distribution and re-labeled as Ch’an. Ch’an was then shipped southward into Korea where it underwent some minor, but important changes, and thence exported to Japan where again the Customs Agents (cultural censors) cut and pasted to their delight and called it Zen. 印度的佛教被送到’中国洗衣店’进行清洗，去除了多余的杂质和不必要的东西，经过重新分配并贴上标签之后，变成了禅宗。然后禅宗被传往朝鲜，在进行了很小的修正之后，又漂洋过海前往日本，遭遇了海关（文化审查），按照他们的意愿进行修修剪剪，并被命名为禅。（引用）Have you read The Tao of Zen by Ray Grigg? If not, this is a very brisk summary of it! 你读过Ray Grigg的《禅之道》吗？如果没有，那么你的结论恐怕有些草率了。A note on Vegetarianism and B Kipling remarks on the fact, detrimentally, that Buddhist were meat-eaters during his tenure in India! 素食主义者和佛教的记载是不利的，吉卜林曾回忆道：在他的任期内，印度的佛教徒是食肉的！Detrimentally because he was a vegetarian? The Buddha wasn’t a vegetarian, so what was the basis for Kipling’s remarks? Apparently the Buddha’s favourite food was pork and it was food poisoning from it that caused or hastened his demise. 因为他是素食者所以不利吗？佛陀不是素食者，吉卜林的评论又有什么影响？佛陀最爱的食物就是猪肉，因为食物中毒而加速了他的死亡。20、DrumRContrary to what my previous post must "sound" like, I really like the works of Confucius and Mencius. Confucius was my first exposure to the Eastern Philosophies as a youth and therefore holds a certain special place. （回复19号评论）与我先前在贴子所说不同的是，我真的很喜欢孔子和孟子的著作。在我年轻的时候，第一次接触东方哲学读的就是孔子，因此在我心里有特殊的地位。---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21、SnoopyI also thought Confucius was mostly just a Civil Service etiquette manual till I read some more of his stuff recently (and Mencius et al). But I can’t say I’m a convert! （回复20号评论）我也认为儒家思想主要是士大夫阶层的行为准则，而最近我又研究了他和孟子更多的著作，有点心得。但是我没有改变自己的信仰。23、seattlegal It figures. Many speculate that this interaction occurred due to the silk trade. So many overlook the less glamourous tea trade. 有道理。很多人推测这种相互作用是由于丝绸贸易，他们大多忽略了茶叶贸易带来的影响。The Universe may never be the same! If the second infusion merely expanded the taste profile of this tea it is the third infusion that has somewhat of the inexplicable, the vastness, the, dare I say it, the Tao? So what did come first: Tea or Buddhism, turtles or the I Ching?? Another conundrum for the Mystics and Philosophers to ponder. Yet should they attempt to take on such introspective searching of the ot may I provide the tea? 宇宙绝不是这样的！如果第二次冲泡仅仅扩大了茶的口感，那么第三次冲泡让人多少有些捉摸不透，我可以说，这就是’道’吗？那么哪个才是最先出现的：茶还是佛教，乌龟还是《易经》？（译者注：先民在龟壳上刻字并占卜，然后才出现了《易》，作者是在思考茶对佛教的产生有没有影响）对于神秘主义者和哲学家来说，另一个谜题是他们是否应该通过自省来探求那些高深莫测的东西？我可以为他们提供茶…（引用）What do the Tea Leaves in the bottom of your cup say? I’m reminded of the first story in Zen Flesh, Zen Bones: A Cup of Tea. Nan-in, a Japanese master, received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen. Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring. The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!” “Like this cup,” Nan-in said, “you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?” 留在杯底的茶叶渣会说点什么？我想起了《禅骨禅肉》中的第一则故事：（译者注：禅骨禅肉Zen Flesh Zen Bones，是一本向西方人介绍禅宗的畅销书，这本书没有高妙深奥的理论，而是由101个小故事，将佛法深入浅出地阐释出来） 一天，一个大学教授向明治时期的南隐禅师问禅。 南隐禅师给来访的教授沏茶。禅师将茶杯倒满时，仍然继续倒茶。 教授看着溢出来的茶，忍不住说，「杯子已经满了，不能再到了。」 禅师说，「你就像这杯茶，头脑中充满了看法和成见。在没有把自己杯子排空前，我怎么向你说禅呢？」24、Snoopy According to Tea Classified (by Pettigrew and Richardson)…The form of the name in any particular country depends upon how the product got there. When it was first traded (to the Arab countries and Russia) it went with the Mandarin word “cha.” When it was traded to Europe (by the Dutch) it went with the Amoy word “te”. From these two, all the other derivations followed (shai, ja, chay, chai, ch’a, thee, tea, tee, tey, thay etc)…Another interesting note: the Chinese only starting oxidising their tea (to make black tea) for the export markets because the unoxidised teas did not travel well. OK, that was interesting to me… 按照茶的分类（佩蒂格鲁和理查德森）在任何特定国家名字的构成都取决于商品是怎样运过来的。当第一次贸易（到阿拉伯国家和俄罗斯），带来的是汉字茶（cha）。当茶被荷兰人传进欧洲时，带来的是厦门话茶（te）（荷兰人走的是水路，而厦门是发货的港口）。从这两个派生出了其他的发音（shai, ja, chay, chai, ch’a, thee, tea, tee, tey, thay等）。另一个有趣的记载：中国人将茶氧化（制作黑茶）用于出口，因为没被氧化的茶不便运输。好吧，只是我觉得很有意思……25、DrumR This may be correct for most of the loose teas that were shipped to Europe but does not necessarily pertain to the teas in brick and cake form from Yunnan that were exported to Tibet, Mongolia, etc. Perhaps a search concerning the origin and history of Lapsang Suchong might also reveal some interesting information concerning this. 大多数被运往欧洲的散装茶大概都是这样，但对于产自云南销往西藏、马来西亚等地的砖茶就没必要了。或许探寻正山小种红茶的起源和历史也能找到一些奇闻轶事。（译者注：正山小种红茶Lapsang Suchong，产自福建武夷山，早在17世纪初就远销欧洲，并大受欢迎，曾经被当时的英格兰皇家选为皇家红茶）26、Netti-Netti confucianisms effect on the previously mentioned religions comes in many forms, such as the commentary of confucius and his ten wings in the I-Ching 儒家学说也影响着之前提到的两个宗教，比如孔夫子对《易经》的注释和十翼。（引用） What if Confucius rewrote the document itself - rather than just add some appendices? 如果让孔子重写（易经），而不是加注，那么情况会有什么不同?27、seattlegal The I Ching is basically a workbook for consulting a divination oracle. Confucious didn't have much use for divination, so why would rewrite the interpretation of the oracle? (Would his doing so violate his ideal of virtue?）However, there are charges by Daoists today of Neo-Confucianists altering the old Daoist documents....such as Zhu Xi with the Explanation of the Diagram of the Supreme UltimateZhou Dunyi's text is very short, but is an excellent synopsis. The first sentence of his explanation goes &&from the Infinite to the Supreme Ultimate&&, meaning that the Supreme Ultimate is born out of the Infinite. However, the famous Neo-Confucian philosopher of the Southern Song, Zhu Xi, removed the character 'Zi' ('from') from the original Chinese text in his commentary to the Illustrated Explanation to the Supreme Ultimate, changing the first sentence's meaning into &&the Infinite is the Supreme Ultimate&& , in order to argue that it has no higher source. This does not conform to Chen Bo's original meaning as passed down in the Diagram of the Supreme Ultimate, and obliterates its original Daoist meaning. In addition, Zhu Xi modified the original Diagram. 《易经》是占卜问卦的基本工具书。孔子没有把重心放在占卜之上，所以为什么要重写卦辞的解释呢？（这样做不就违背了他所倡导的美德吗？）然而，道教徒指责新儒家修改了古老的道教典籍…比如朱熹对太极图的注解。周敦颐的文章非常短（指《太极图说》一文），但却是一份不可多得的纲要。开篇第一句‘无极而太极’，意思是太极出于无极。然而，南宋著名的新儒学的哲学家朱熹，在他的《太极图说解》的注释中把“自”字从原文中抹去，把第一句的意思变成了‘无极即太极’，只是为了说明太极没有更高的来源。这与陈抟在太极图中的原意不符，并且抹去了原始的道教含义。（译者注：朱熹认为世间万物的主宰莫过于一个‘理’字，而太极就是他所谓的‘理’。而道教认为‘太极’是‘有’，‘有’是从‘无’中所出，也就是所谓的‘无中生有’。儒道两家对太极的理解有明显的区别）
孺子可教也
道是华夏独有的文化老外看不懂
老外的理解最多只能是表面，无法理解精髓，道有根，因为他们不是中国人。
不要觉得老外看不懂，那是我们的一厢情愿，通行本和马王堆汉墓甲乙本有几个人真正研究甚至是读完的，我们别总是一种“四大发明”的心态
说好的是讲道德经，你拿佛教和儒家出来是什么意思
说老说去不过是一种文化现象而已，西方从培根开始的唯物主义自然科学世界观才是揭示世界真相的钥匙
说来说去不过是一种文化现象而已，西方从培根开始的唯物主义自然科学世界观才是揭示世界真相的钥匙
易为天地准，当然包括神灵！上帝在西方留下的是一本宗教书籍圣经，而在中国留下的是周易
圣经不是上帝亲自所作，可以说是其弟子或者耶稣传道，神马猎魔或者邪灵附体，其实就和道教抓鬼捉妖一样
修炼就是不受现在这身体限制，还搞神马肉身不腐
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