为什么有这么多越南人和中国人的区别喜欢中国

越南人为什么对中国人那样友好?
danang 兰珂悦榕庄 会安 banyantree 悦椿
撰稿人,旅游名博,《想和你去吹吹风》作者
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飞Da Nang机场的飞机先是晚点3个多小时,好不容易起飞了,又因机械故障返航,在机场又折腾了1个小时,这才结束漫长的等待,此时已经是后半夜了。期间酒店前台询问,司机已经候在机场了,除了替航班至歉又能如何。终于,Da Nang机场到了,潮湿温润的空气让人觉得很舒服,司机告诉我,到达兰珂海滩还需要1.5个小时左右,看来假期的第一个晚上就快过去了。路上黑黑的,倒是那个长达6公里的隧道略显光明,最后一段路格外黑暗,漆漆一片,没人能讲出尽头在哪里,就在即将绝望时,光亮点点,悦榕庄到了。经常飞什么事情都会碰到,这种因机械故障返航的事儿还是第一次遇到,有业内人士透露,可能是机长不愿意飞了,但愿不是如此。摄影/寒江我就这样睡啊睡啊,半梦半醒,迷迷糊糊,当高高的阳光透过厚厚的窗帘将我彻底唤醒时,我想已是中午。几个小时前的惊艳,现在更加强烈,大大的客厅有让人想打滚的冲动。取自越南海边故事的画,看上去如身临其境。荷花的壁画最是色彩浓艳,细看看,花瓣竟是用细小的贝壳碎片拼凑而成。摄影/寒江摄影/寒江窗外泳池的温度正好,游上一会儿,融化在兰珂海滩的蔚蓝中。这是一处山尖儿,远眺宁静的兰珂海湾,干干净净的海滩上没有什么人。这个季节的浪比较大,阵阵袭来的浪在岸边泛起一片片白白的浪花。摄影/寒江早餐时段已经过了,可以在池畔餐厅吃饭,来上几个正宗的越南菜才是重要。现在的温度正好,海风吹过,昨天夜里持续到今天凌晨的折腾都不算什么了。摄影/寒江早先约好的厨艺课就快开始了,管家特意来通知,在悦榕庄的几天里,咋也可以装作是有管家的人。Cooking class安排在酒店的有机农庄,这些有机菜只供给酒店使用。两道经典越南菜:清夏春卷,和葡萄叶烤牛肉,想不到的是春卷皮是预先半成品,象纸板一样,待水浸湿后,奇迹发生了,就是颤颤微微儿的、晶莹剔透的春卷皮儿啊。摄影/寒江摄影/寒江有机农庄回来的路上,路过高尔夫球球场,好有挥挥杆的欲望。即使不挥杆,路上的景色也值得小驻,特别是经过的悦椿酒店,虽是客人略密集些,但处处都是小景,倒也甚是怡人。摄影/寒江摄影/寒江会安古城离Da Nang仅数里之遥,驱车10来分钟便可到达。一路上,Da Nang的海边都是酒店,几乎一家挨着一家,我还是喜欢兰珂,一个海滩只有一家度假村。听顺化本地人讲,Da Nang的酒店里有一家由中国人经营,住店的客人几乎都是中国人,大多为了到酒店内的赌场一试身手。摄影/寒江摄影/寒江会安曾是越南中部最重要的港口,兴盛时期,这里聚集着来自世界各地的船只,当时来自中国的货船在越南的第一站就是会安。难怪现在古城内那么多的中国各地会馆,福建会馆、广东会馆、潮州会馆、等等,这也是越南人对中国人比较友好的原因啊。除了中国人,日本人也在会安留下了许多印记,最有名的要数日本桥,几百过去了,那桥依然坚固。摄影/寒江摄影/寒江会安的咖啡馆很多,样子大多弄得挺资的,再加上众多贩卖纪念品的小店,恍惚间给人以丽江的感觉,只是门票没咱们的贵,虽然挺商业化,但程度还追不上我们,特别是西方游客远比我们的景点的外国人多。摄影/寒江Seedlings是会安最好的餐馆之一,就在秋盆河畔,对面的日本桥清晰可见,传统的越南美食、咖啡、各色美酒均可觅到,仔细看看餐馆内的介绍,这里竟然还为越南年轻人提供英语等技能培训,很有社会责任感,在浮躁的当下很难得。夜晚的会安比白天要热闹许多,到处都是灯笼,也有许多贩卖灯笼的人。摄影/寒江又是一个早晨,兰珂的海滩依然迷人,人少清爽。悦榕庄的瑜伽教练来自泰国,看人家随意将腿放至任何想要放的地方,感觉自己太露怯,越来越臃肿的体态直奔熊状而去,想年轻时我也曾玉树临风啊。想来,这次的瑜伽太专业,一场课下来,胳膊腿儿齐来发酸。摄影/寒江瑜伽课上我太拼了,到了下午有些倦意。要不是管家提醒,差点忘记下午约的SPA,正好可以缓解瑜伽练习后的酸疼。悦榕庄SPA技师的手法源自泰国,在为客人服务前须在泰国培训3个月。与其他SPA不同的是,悦榕的技师都是年轻貌美的女孩,赏心悦目,balinese中,我放松下来,又沉沉地进入了梦乡。摄影/寒江晚餐烧烤就在房间的阳台上,虽说我住的这套别墅有270米,但还真的第一次在自家泳池旁边dining by design。坐在自己房间的餐桌旁,享受悦榕庄上好的服务,这待遇,还真是不一般。酒店的夜里很美,灯光亮起时,一切都是那么地完美。摄影/寒江几天下来,除了在Lang Co海滩闲泡,便是健身房、图书馆,要不逛逛礼品店,哪儿都不想去,悦榕庄这样的好酒店就应该来享受的,将时间用在别的地方倒有些浪费了,度假才是享受光阴的最好时候,一秒一秒地流过。摄影/寒江好事最多磨,Da Nang没有直飞北京的航班,须在别地机场转机,这个机场没有24小时转机的服务,餐馆、休息室全关,从夜里1点多到清早6点钟的时间里,只能睡在椅子上,后来竟有些感冒。如此看来,有条件的人应该考虑一下商务机了,听说现在有些商务机的价格没那么离谱儿,不过,但是,那啥,我还是去上班吧。摄影/寒江
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来成为一名有态度的灵感导师你知道为什么越南人讨厌中国?你知道为什么越南人讨厌中国?安阳新鲜事儿百家号袁训会:现在,越南民众对中国非常排斥,能否从历史上为我们解析这一现象的原因?程映虹:我只能从我了解的越南一些知识分子和党政干部这个特定角度谈谈。越共虽然长期是中共的盟友并受惠于中共,但双方的关系还是很复杂的。在河内我采访过一个老翻译家和诗人,叫DngTng,他四十多年来翻译了大约50部世界文学名著(包括《飘》,《安娜卡列尼娜》等等)。他手不释卷,常常在图书馆从开门待到关门。和很多在法国学校中接受系统教育的越南老知识分子不一样,DngTng是正宗的&红小鬼&,他的英文和法文基本是长期艰苦自学成材的。他少年时就投身抗法战争,但在战斗的间隙中抓紧一切机会自学外文。他参加过不少战斗,但在爱国主义之外,他比别人多一个甘冒生命危险的理由:他要冲进敌人营地,搜寻一些有用的书籍。越南战争的时候,他是越通社的记者,负责宣传,战争结束以后,他还是越南审判美国战争罪行委员会的委员,他过去非常反美、反法、反殖民主义,但今天当我提起这些往事的时候他却有些淡漠。他说他越战后两次访问美国,时间都很早,不是现在的事,并给我看了第二次访问美国时在华盛顿的越战纪念碑前写的英文诗,那完全是一个反战的和平主义的人道立场。本文来自知名公众号(思考人世):skrs888 更多最猛真相爆料请搜索微信号添加关注!大陆看不到的消息!越战纪念碑我采访他的时候,他说自己始终对中国怀有敌意,当时正值南海危机,我以为是这个原因,他年纪很大了,说话很慢,他边想边说:&一切都是从1949年开始的&,本来越南好好的,虽然抗法,但是本地人有很多自由。1949年,中国解放了,中共打到了南方,在当地建铁路、公路,和越共建立起联系,毛主义就来了,所有人开始要政治学习、思想汇报,连生活隐私都没有,找朋友、谈恋爱也要向组织汇报。为了在那些接二连三的自我批判和检讨会上过关,我们一些人只得告诉组织一些个人生活上的小错,例如男女关系等等。我实在憎恨这些。中国总是把它的东西强加给我们,那是&大汉扩张主义&(他用的是&DaHanexpansionism&)。DngTng想了一会,又说:我们这一代还是受到了很多西方的影响,民主自由的观念,独立的观念,等等。我们得益于这些东西。我还采访过另外一个老革命,叫范全,抗法的时候,他的上级觉得他很年轻,也很聪明,不想让他上前线,就把他送到中国南宁的越南干部学校去学习,一些越南高干子弟在那里读书。这个范全的中文,英文、法文都非常好,还会广东话。他跟我说70年代的时候,当时法国和越南建立外交关系,法国大使馆定期把他们的阅览室打开,让越南方面的人去看,做信息交流。他说,那时候,他和少数几个知识分子得到上级批准,几天几夜地拚命赶,把阅览室的东西全都看完了。有一次,法国大使对他们说:&你们过去都是反法的老战士,现在却是我们很好的朋友&,他回答说:&政治上你们给了我们殖民主义,但思想上你们给了我们启蒙主义&。很多越南知识分子跟我刚才例举的两个人都很像,参加过民族独立战争,但并不是真正的共产主义者,而是民族主义者,也是民主主义者,他们在政治上反西方,但是思想文化上非常亲西方。徐书鸣:这跟胡志明受法、美的人权、民主思想影响比较深是不是也有关系?程映虹:对,越共有胡志明这样的领导人,和斯大林毛泽东不同。他是个比较温和的人,身上有比较重的旧传统影响,另外还受到很多西方个人主义思潮的影响,但他和中国的关系又太深,很亲近,所以他又很推崇中国的政策,包括土改方面。胡志明与毛泽东在一起他同时也尽量用自己的影响,限制中国的影响,而越南方面也通过树立他的形象,来限制中国领导人的影响。1966年,毛想让越南也开展文革,胡志明不愿意,他说,越南还在打仗,是武化大革命,不是文化大革命。当时毛泽东在杭州见胡志明,谈到文化大革命,胡志明表示不理解、不接受,毛泽东让他到外面去看大字报,他看了斗浙江大学校长的大字报,叹息说:&被这样斗争的人应该很悲哀吧&。我采访一些越南老人,他们跟我说,60年代时苏联和中国都在越南做宣传,苏联人的宣传,越南人听得懂,中国人的宣传,他们却无法理解。因为苏联的宣传中谈到战争与和平,建设等等还有人性和理性。当时越南和中国一样,也到处是高音喇叭,每天固定一段时间放中国北京电台的广播。越南干部中有一个特别的表达,当说到某个人说话高亢武断时,就说&他像北京电台一样&。袁训会:除了越共高层的政治派系,南北越的统一对中越关系是不是也有影响,内忧解决了,越南就越发地关注外患了。程映虹:对,基辛格和尼克松访华对于中越关系是个很大的打击,越南人怀疑中国人在和美国人做交易。这件事蛮怪的,苏联再怎么跟美国谈判,越南都没动静,中国一旦和美国谈判,它们就担心中国会出卖越南的利益。在越南的历史叙述里,它们吃过中国的两次亏:一次是在1954年的《日内瓦协议》,说中国方面跟西方做了交易,把南北越的分界线划在17度纬线上,而越共方面是强烈要求把分界线往南推,只是当时的中国刚打完朝鲜战争,引起了国际上的担心,所以,年,中共在国际上的姿态比较低,提出和平共处五项原则.越共认为因为中共的低姿态,牺牲了越南的利益。另一次在是七十年代初,中美接触,但具体的内容很模糊,只是说中美接触,在出卖越南的利益。而黎笋对越南最大的贡献,官方的说法是,他在北方邻国和美国妥协的情况下,坚持在军事上打败南越,统一国家。这里的北方邻国就是指中国。中国和美国妥协,但黎笋领导越共坚持要打,在两三年内把越南给统一了。所以,表面上看越共感谢中共对它抗美战争的支持,但内里矛盾大得很。尼克松访华这有点像中共说斯大林为了苏联和西方的关系,主张中国像德国和朝鲜一样,南北分治,以长江为界,中共没有听它的。这一点,你只要站在对方民族主义的立场上就不难理解,尽管中共还是感谢苏联对自己内战的物质支持。今天回过头来看,中越关系最大的教训就是不要为了一时的政治需要把对方美化或者丑化,偶像化或者妖魔化。国家关系不要拿来为国内政治服务,尤其是为意识形态服务。我是60和70年代长大的,那是一个天天宣传英雄的时代,当时越南就是中国反美和世界革命宣传中的偶像,越南抗美的英雄在中国尽人皆知,我到现在都还记得越南那些英雄人物的名字和事迹,就像本国的英雄一样。中国连环画中的越南英雄阮文追歌颂越南南方抗美英雄的《南方来信》不知印刷了多少册,还有文艺演出。越南人民和军队就是英雄,全世界人民中越南人民是中国人民的最亲的兄弟,中国和越南是同志加兄弟,等等等等。但忽然一年之内,这些都不见了,被&越寇&取代,只有在抗日战争时才称&日寇&。越南再坏,难道比日本更坏?说到底,这种为了一时的政治需要而做的宣传最终受伤害的不是别人,而是自己。昨天的偶像今天变垃圾,这样的事情反复发生,一个民族就难以建立稳定的道德标准,人们就会认为没有什么道德,一切都以政治需要为准,谁今天手里有权力就是今天社会的道德模范,完全被道德犬儒主义主宰。这样一种看法,很遗憾,在今天的中国非常普遍,因为它很大程度上成为了现实。本文仅代表作者观点,不代表百度立场。系作者授权百家号发表,未经许可不得转载。安阳新鲜事儿百家号最近更新:简介:关注安阳百姓身边的事情,你关注的事情!作者最新文章相关文章历史之家--历史资料最全的历史吧
越南人为何如此仇视中国
越南人为何如此仇视中国
文章简介: 越南全称为越南社会主义共和国,是亚洲的一个社会主义国家,位于东南亚中南半岛东部,北与中国广西、云南接壤,西与老挝、柬埔寨交界,国土狭长,面积约33万平方公里,紧邻南
  越南全称为越南社会主义共和国,是亚洲的一个社会主义国家,位于东南亚中南半岛东部,北与中国广西、云南接壤,西与老挝、柬埔寨交界,国土狭长,面积约33万平方公里,紧邻南海,海岸线长3260多公里,是以京族为主体的多民族国家。
  历史上,越南中北部长期为中国领土,968年正式脱离中国独立建国,之后越南历经多个封建王朝并不断向南扩张,但历朝历代均为中国的藩属国。
  19世纪中叶后逐渐沦为法国殖民地,1945年八月革命以后,胡志明宣布成立越南民主共和国,1976年改名越南社会主义共和国,1986年开始施行革新开放,2001年越共九大确定建立社会主义市场经济体制。
  作为社会主义国家,越南也曾经把中国当成老大哥,可以说,越南就是在中国的倾心打造下才自立门户的。
  1945年5月,德国败降以后,日本法西斯侵略势力奄奄一息,越盟已控制全国大部分地区,在中国活动已久得到胡志明及时指出,总起义条件已经成熟,根据胡志明建议,8月13&15日党的全国会议在宣光省新潮举行,决定立即发动全国总起义越南革命取得了胜利,9月2日,越南民主共和国宣告成立,胡志明就任临时政府主席,并发表了越南人民的《独立宣言》。
  1946年3月,胡志明以自己在越南人民中的崇高威望和杰出贡献,当选为越南民主共和国主席,可是,国家建立了不等于就万事大吉,很快,越南这新生儿就遭遇了法国殖民者的武装干涉而危在旦夕,此时的中国,刚刚欢度完抗战胜利,内战的硝烟又起,一番砍砍杀杀,终于在日建立了新政权。
  当&义勇军进行曲&作为中华人民共和国的国歌在中国大地上响起来不久,胡志明仿佛看到了越南人民解放的希望,立即给毛泽东写来祝贺信,并且希望中国新政府能伸来援助之手,并建立正式外交关系,这样,中国就成了世界上第一个与越南建立正式外交关系的国家。
  建交当然是为了援助,没有多久,胡志明秘密进入广西请求援助,刘少奇则觉得&小二哥&毕竟不如&老大哥&,所以建议胡志明去苏联,拜会斯大林,利用周恩来、毛泽东在莫斯科之即,共同争取苏联政府的援助。
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粤ICP备号-1&&联系QQ:&&>&&>& > 亚洲网友评论:越南人以前是中国人吗?
亚洲网友评论:越南人以前是中国人吗?
注:此文来自于亚洲论坛越南版块&sunflowerseedAnyways, my question is, were Vietnamese once Chinese? No, right? Vietnamese used to live in Southern China a long long time ago, and settled in current Vietnam after some war or something. They never mixed with Chinese. Then the Northern Han Chinese soldiers escaped N.China afterward and went to Southern China to avoid war and famine, so the Southern Chinese today (from Shanghai to Guangdong/HK) are the descendants of the escapees of Northern Han soldiers.Am I right? Vietnamese were never Chinese, right?I'm so confused.Thanks&我有个问题,越南人以前是中国人吗?不是,对不对?很久很久以前越南人住在南中国,后在战争之后移到了现在的越南。他们从来不和中国人通婚。然后北方汉人从中国北方逃到南方躲避战争和饥荒,所以今天的中国南方(从上海至广东/香港)是北方汉人逃兵的后代。我说的对吗?越南人从来都不是中国人,对吧?&&&评论翻译:&&===============================================================&&XigonCongchuaWhat you say is pretty much it.Though I would say no ethnicity on earth today is pure. So to say certain group is not mixed is rather absurd.&&你说的都差不多对。不过我觉得现在地球上没有那个种族是纯的。所以要说任何一个族群完全没有混血是很荒唐的。Interesting post. Well, if they used to be Chinese, they must not like the Chinese very much because people now call them Vietnamese. But I am ashamed to say I am not familiar with Asian history. I should study it some time.有趣的帖子。如果越南人以前是中国人,那他们肯定不是很喜欢中国人,因为大家都叫他们越南人了。&&===============================================================&&JazzyQueenHeeheheheh. Vietnamese were chinese in the past. Well, based on history of vietnam and china then vietnamese once were chinese. Anyway. today is different heheheh vietnamese is vietnamese and chinese is chinese. if you said so. why chinese are alway bulling vietnamese. ?remember..... in the ancient time. Vietnamese were one province of china and population 2:60 with real Han and Han can not assimilate whole population. Now 1:6 it is real hard for them hahhahhaa呵呵呵,越南人过去曾是中国人。根据越南和中国的历史,越南人曾是中国人。不过现在不是了,呵呵呵。越南人是越南人,中国人是中国人,如果越南人是中国人,那为什么中国人总是欺负越南人?记住,在古代,越南是中国的一个省,当时越汉比例是2:60,汉人尚且不能同化整个越南人口。现在都1:6了,那就更加不可能了。&&=============================================================&&cocolocoNO, Viet were once Viet.不是,越南人以前还是越南人&&=============================================================&&eeniemeenieI read somewhere that the pure Han Chinese are the ones who live between the Yellow River and Yangtze River in China, so the Chinese in China who live above or below this region are Han Chinese mixed with other ethnicities.not sure how accurate this is though -.-我在那里读到过说纯的汉人是那些住在黄河和长江流域的中国人,所以住在其他地区的中国人都有和其他民族混血。不过我也不是很确定。&&===============================================================&&savethezombiesthat's like saying koreans, japanese, mongolians, and hmong were once chinese你要不要说韩国人,日本人,蒙古人,苗族人都曾是中国人好了。&&===============================================================&&RangerBlueweren't we all Africans once upon a time too? I doubt any of us would say that we're Africans now不是说很久很久以前我们都是非洲人吗?我想没人会说现在的我们也是非洲人吧?&&===============================================================&&BuddhaloveI think viet and Chinese are Sibling.我觉得越南人和中国人是兄弟。&&===============================================================&&SoCalViets and Hans were originally from the yellow (between Yangtze River and Red River / Pear River) and red area (between Yangtze River and Huang He River), respectively.It is silly to say that Viets were once Chinese or vice versa.越南人和汉人分别源自黄色(长江和红河/珠江之前)和红色(长江和黄河之间)的区域。说越南人曾是中国人或中国人以前是越南人是很白痴的。&===============================================================&&YoursTrulyif you said so. why chinese are alway bulling vietnamese. ?Here's your answer:&引用:如果越南人是中国人,那为什么中国人总是欺负越南人?答案如下:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTE&I think viet and Chinese are Sibling.Siblings like to fight, thats why you see Chinese and Vietnamese fighting all the time&All Asians are siblings and cousins in one way or another. The areas near Vietnam are Viets' siblings, and the Asian countries farther away from Vietnam are like cousins. That's why they're all called Asians引用:我觉得越南人和中国人是兄弟。兄弟都爱打架,这就是为什么中国人和越南人老是打架。所有的亚洲人在某种程度上都是兄弟。越南周边的国家是越南的兄弟,离越南远一点的国家就是表兄弟。这就是为什么我们都是亚洲人。&&===============================================================&&VietSk8rGUIi have a confession to make.....i was once chinese but uncle ho has showed me the way and now i am vietnamese我要坦白&..我以前是中国人,但是胡uncle给我指明了方向所以现在我是越南人了。&&==============================================================&&sunflowerseedic thanks for the map. That was what I thought...Vietnamese left Southern China before the Northern Hans took over it. I wasn't too sure before because I suck at any kind of history. Thanks for the clarification引用之前的那个地图。我知道了,谢谢你的这张地图。和我想的一样,越南人在北方汉人占领南中国之前就离开了。我历史不好所以不是很确定,谢谢你我现在搞清楚了。&&===============================================================&&strongbadSouthern Han Chinese are more genetically similar to minority groups like Vietnamese while northern Han Chinese are closer to minority groups like Mongols than with each other.&Northerner's face tend to be more 'squarish' and flat. Many of them have single eyelid just like Koreans.Southerner's face tend to have more bony features. Many of them have double eyelids.南方汉人基因上和越南人接近,而北方汉人更接近蒙古人,而不是南方汉人。北方人脸方且扁,很多人像韩国人那样是单眼皮。南方人的脸比较瘦,很多都是双眼皮。这个人还引用了中文的研究:QUOTE科学家经过调查,给中国人的脸画了个像:最多的是鹅蛋脸,南方人中菱形脸和五角形脸的数量也较多。面部扁平,颧骨突出;皮肤多为浅黄或棕黄;头发较黑,较直;多数是丹凤眼;鼻梁不太高,嘴不前突,嘴唇不厚不薄。按照中国人的审美习惯,鹅蛋脸比较美,这是由于鹅蛋脸的宽度为5只眼睛长度,两眼的间距为1只眼睛长,从左右眼角到左右耳廓各为1只眼睛长度,看上去比较协调。长方脸、圆形脸和菱形脸、五角形脸的人,也不必为此而懊丧,因为长有长的美,圆有圆的美,每一种脸型都有它美的地方。有人对中国人头部的长度要和宽度,作过一番测量和统计。同样是中国人,头的长度最小的只有164毫米,最大的却有206毫米;头的宽度最小的仅 129毫米,最大的可达164毫米。东北黑龙江、吉林的人,头的长度最短,平均在187毫米以下,而华南的广东、广西、福建人,头的长度比北方人长,平均在187毫米以上。北方人和南方人头的宽度也不一样:华北和东北地区的人,头部宽度平均在155毫米以上;华南和西南地区的人,头部宽度平均在155毫米以下。由此可见,中国北方人的头部短而宽,而南方人的头部长而窄。根据测量结果可以发现,中国人的面部大体可分成三段相等的部分:由前额发际(也就是脑门上长头发的那条线)到两只眼睛相连水平线的距离;由两眼水平线到两侧口角水平线的距离;由鼻孔底部到下巴尖端的距离,三者基本相等。脸上这三段距离不相等的人,看上去就显得不那么顺眼。脸上的表情在言谈举止中是举足轻重的,它是一种无声的语言。心理学家认为,在人表达的全部感情里,言语只占7%,声音占了38%,而面部表情则占55%。正如18世纪法国哲学家狄德罗所说,一个人&心灵的每一个活动都表现在他的脸上。&&&===============================================================&&YoursTruly^Uh-oh, I think your post is gonna lead to trouble...lol...楼上的,我觉得你的帖子会惹来麻烦&&===============================================================.&&BuddhaloveI didn't know Southern China used to belong to Vietnam.引用地图原来南中国过去属于越南。&&===============================================================&&LamDaiYou can't perfectly determine Vietnamese and Chinese. In history, there is one period when Han came to Southern Vietnam and settled there. And now those Han still live among us. They naturally became Vietnamese.&Same happened to North Vietnam .Unless you use DNA detect or something like that.没有办法完美的区分越南人和中国人。历史上有一段时期汉人来到南越南然后定居。现在那些汉人仍然住在我们中间。他们很自然的变成了越南人。北越也是一样的。除非你验DNA之类的。&&===============================================================&&ConjugateManifoldI really get tired of these viet monkeys, I guess they are so ashamed of their inferior root such that they have been so desperate to trying to assiociate them with the superior Chinese race.Can you just learn a little bit self-pride like Koreans? they have been dominated by Chinese for the same, if not longer, period of time, just spoke Chinese as much as you monkeys did, and talking about DNA evdience, their Y-DNA contains just as much, if not more Chinese male DNA markers comparing to you vietcong monkeys, and they are at least proud of whatever history they still have.I dont believe in any point of history vietcong has ever be in China, get over with it, you fu-king vietcong monkeys cannot claiming all yue as one ethinc OK? since back then, Chinese simply called all southern jungle creatures as &yue&.我受不了你们这些越南猴子了,我猜你们肯定为自己的低等感到羞愧所以拼命的要和高级的中国人扯上关系。能不能拜托你们和韩国人学点自尊啊?他们也一样受中国人支配,甚至时间更长,中文说的也和你们差不多,至于DNA,他们的Y-DNA含有的中国男性DNA标记和你们越共猴的差不多,还可能更多。但他们至少为他们拥有的历史感到骄傲。我不相信历史上的任何时期越共是中国人,麻烦你们,越共猴总不能把所有&越&都称为一个种族吧。因为在以前,中国人把所有的南方丛林动物都叫做&越&。&&===============================================================&&Crossbowmen2QUOTE&I didn't know Southern China used to belong to Vietnam.You dont know anything other than being anti Chinese (I've seen you rant all over the place on Thai chat). Please, do take in the rubbish from the idiot Socal.引用:我不知道原来南中国过去属于越南。你除了反中国你还知道什么啊?拜托,不要相信这种垃圾言论好不好。==============================================================&&JazzyQueen21 century is who fu.kan care .... right.21世纪了,谁还管这些啊。&&===============================================================&&HunmanetHow about Han-Chinese ?Are they pure race or mixed race ?那汉人呢?他们是纯血还是混血民族?&&===============================================================&&&Type98GNanman is nanman. They are in no way a part of the superior Chinese civilization, which the west consider a cultural threat to their civilization. To the west Nanman civilization is just some barbarian culture like the ones in Africa.南蛮就是南蛮。他们根本不可能是被西方人看做文化威胁的上等中国文明的一部分。对西方人来说南蛮文明是野蛮文化,就像非洲的那些。&&===============================================================&&BuddhaloveYou dont know anything other than being anti Chinese (I've seen you rant all over the place on Thai chat). Please, do take in the rubbish from the idiot Socal.I am not anti chinese, but anti Jek thai.引用:你除了反中国你还知道什么啊?拜托,不要相信这种垃圾言论好不好。我不反中国,我反的是泰国华人。&&===============================================================&&ChinaHKJapanTWI am not anti chinese, but anti Jek thai.&hey man, Jek Thai means ethnic Chinese in Thailand. Jek are still our people. I see it as an insult to Chinese. I just never mentioned anything because it's a waste of my time. Let's just say that Laos are not at the top of my list right now.And to whoever is blabbing nonsense, I think I mentioned in the other war thread that PingHua is the only H.Chinese branch that is not from Han origin. All the other Han Chinese subgroups all have coherent Han Chinese genetic structure.I'm about to go to school so I dont' have time to find the article. If you want the article, I'll give it to you later.&引用:我不反中国,我反的是泰国华人。嘿,泰国华人也是中国人,我觉得你在侮辱中国人。还有不要再胡说八道了,我说过了,PingHua是唯一不是汉族起源的汉族人分支。其他所有的汉族分支都有连贯的一致的汉族基因结构。&&==============================================================&&Type98GA lot of Chinese migrated to Thailand intermixing with the local people and don't forget their culture and adapting Thai ones, Which would explain why Thai people are generally quite successful.很多移民到泰国的中国人都和当地人通婚和而且不忘记自己文化的同时也学习泰国文化,这也是为什么泰国人都很成功。&&===============================================================&&SoCalFeb 11&We do not make ridiculous claims. Hans destroyed much historical records of Viets from 1st century to 10th century plus early 15th century during the Ming occupation.我们才不会胡说八道呢。从1世纪到10世纪之间,以及明朝占领的15世纪,汉人摧毁了越南的很多历史。&&===============================================================&&FoxeverI dont think Jek is H.Chinese. Dont believe? Check it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNVMXnOznI4They can hang out with Thai...Oh no... Khmer...lolThis is Khmer, look at 0:30-1:20:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-59c5-cMi4They look same LOL.我不觉得泰国华人是汉族中国人,不信?看这里:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNVMXnOznI4他们可以和泰国人,oh,不对,是高棉人在一起玩:这就是高棉人,看at 0:30-1:20:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-59c5-cMi4他们长得都一样,哈哈哈。&&==============================================================&&pdriveChinese d!ckheads like ConjugateManifold and Type98G should cut it out. This is getting too ridiculous. I have no problem with you having a beef with some individual whose view you disagree, but it seems many of you just wait for an excuse to trash all Vietnamese as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these controversial points are made by disguised Chinese themselves just to get an excuse trash. You should know there are morons in every country, including China. Do you know that the nationality that killed the most Chinese is Chinese? The biggest enemy of Chinese is your own kind, and trust me when I say this: there are stupid people among you too. (For the sake of future civilized conversation I'm not going to say further, but I hope you get my point).Like I said, if you have a problem with someone, take it up with him/her. Don't be a d!ck and generalize it to everyone. That makes about as much sense as saying &because there are some idiotic Chinese, China is a nation of retards&.&简略翻译重点你们知道杀死最多中国人的是中国人吗?中国人最大的敌人就是你们自己。&&==============================================================&&This view is a few thousand years obsolete. You should cut it. It originated when Han Chinese was bounded by the Yangtze to the south, and as a result Nanman included anything south of that, which is a vast area of current southern China. Did you know the 楚 (Chu) nation and people like 項羽 (Xiang Yu) and the poet 屈原 (Qu Yuen) was considered Nanman as well? Did you know that as a result of the condenscending attitude towards its culture and language after 楚 collapsed, its culture and language have been lost with very few traces remain? I hope I don't have to tell you that nowadays Chu, Qu Yuen and Xiang Yu and all those &barbaric& cultures and languages of those times (including the lost languages Khitan and Jurchen) have all been embraced and fully Chinese now. Nobody would call them &barbaric& language or culture anymore. If you still keep this bigot view, you're only discriminating against your own fellow Chinese.ps. In the future, when it comes to topics of anthropology or race, it might help if before you start the flame war, check with XG to see what she think first. If she doesn't think so, it's most likely just a pothead yearning for attention or in need of someone to insult. You need not reply, she'll take care of it.蛮夷之辩是几千年前的过时观点了。你能不能别说了。这个观点源自汉人被长江拦住不能南下,因此南蛮包括了现在南中国很大一块区域的任何事物。你知道楚国和项羽屈原也被认为是南蛮吗?你知道在楚国灭亡之后,由于汉人的优越感,楚国的文化和语言已经消失殆尽了吗?我想我不需要告诉你,现在的楚国,屈原和项羽以及所有那些野蛮文化和语言(包括失传的语言,契丹和女真)都已经变成中国的了。没人可以叫它们野蛮。如果你一直抱持这种偏见,那你就是在歧视自己的同胞。&&===============================================================&&Qaib(这位是海外苗族人)Replying to the post made by an AF member regarding &calling Nanman as barbarians.& Didn't the Japanese, Mongol and Manchu consider the Han as barbarians as well? Anyways, not to hate on the Chinese, but...... this has always been in my mind regarding this so-called SUPERIOR COMPLEX that some people like to believe they have. LOL&Why hate the Nanman (Yi, Qiangic, Lolo, Bai)??? Didn't Yandi, a Chinese ancestor was the forefather of the Man and Huaxia?if you claim Yan-Huang as your ancestors? Why hate on the Man people if you keep connecting Sino with Tibetan? Tibetan are Man people and Yandi was a Man.Why hate on the Nanman people if you claim them as their distant ancestors? Didn't the Chinese came from the west just like the Tibeto-Burman speaking people of the Qiangic, Yi, Bai, Tujia people?&If Chinese stated that their ancestors were of Qiangic, then wouldn't it be that Chinese are Nanman descendants? hence, Qiangic are known as Nanman along with the largest Tibeto-speaking natives, the Yi people who were the people of Sanxingdui civilization.&Please, stop confusing yourself. How can Chinese called their cousins &the Nanman& as barbarians when they continue to say that they came from the southwest, where the Nanman people live? Hence, Sino-Tibetan.Here we can see that Sino (Chinese) are closely related to the Nanman (Tibeto-Burman). Hence, Yandi of the Man people and Huangdi of the Huaxia.The most confusing thing is that Tai-Kadai and Sino sound much more similar than Tibeto-Burmese and other language families.Tai-Kadai language family has more Sino words than any other language family. Shouldn't it be Sino-Kradaic那些称南蛮为野蛮人的人们,难道不知道日本人,蒙古人和满洲人也把汉人当做蛮夷吗?虽然不想讨厌中国人,但是&每次看到别人有这种优越感时我都会这样想。为什么要恨南蛮(彝,羌,lolo,白)???汉人祖先,炎帝,难道不是蛮人和华夏共同的祖宗吗?如果你觉得炎黄是你们的祖先,如果你一直要把汉人和西藏人扯在一起,为什么要恨蛮夷呢?西藏人是蛮夷炎帝也是蛮夷。如果你们认为他们是遥远的祖先,为什么要歧视南蛮人呢?难道中国人不是和羌,彝,白和土家族的西藏-缅甸语系的人一样来自西方吗?如果中国人受他们的祖先是羌族,那中国人自己才是蛮夷不是吗?因此,羌族和人数最多的西藏语系土著&三星堆文明的彝族人一起被称为南蛮。请不要再继续迷惑自己了。为什么中国人要叫自己的堂兄弟南蛮,却又声称自己来自西南部,南蛮人住的地方呢?也就是所谓的汉-藏地区。这幅图里我们可以看到汉人和南蛮(藏缅)有很近的学血缘,也就是,蛮夷的炎帝,华夏的黄帝。最令人困惑的就是中文和壮侗语系的相似程度要远高于中文和藏-缅,及其他语言的细细盎司程度。? 且壮侗语系中的汉语词汇也多余其他语系,难道不应该被称为汉-侗语系吗?&&&XigonCongchua^ Are you kidding? Majority of Viets around me have clear folds. They're not big like other Southeast Asians fold, but they're obviously visible, not hidden eyelids.and lol, Korean have bigger eyes than Chinese? I'm not sure about that. Probably due to surgery (not trying to offend anyone)&&你开玩笑吧?我身边大多数越南人都有很清楚的双眼皮,不像其他东南亚人的那么大,但是很明显,不是内双。还有,韩国人眼睛比中国人大?我可不确定,可能是整容手术的原因吧(没有要冒犯谁的意思)&===============================================================&&hoang_1989this is a recent experience, when I start to spend some time to study vietnamese and korean eyes on my friends. hehemaybe i'm only surrounded by northern vietnamese?引用上帖:这是我最近的经验,因为我开始研究我朋友的越南眼睛和韩国眼睛。可能是因为我身边都是北越人?&===============================================================&&XigonCongchuaNorthern or Southern Viet, there shouldn't be a big difference. I see Northern Viet folks all the time on newspapers and newsYou probably call this &hidden& double eyelids, but they're not to me, you can still feel the &double-eyelided-ness& of their eyes.Hidden eyelids are those that make you look really like you have single eyelids南越人和北越人应该没什么大差别,我在报纸上新闻上经常看到北越人的。这些你可能觉得是内双,但我不觉得,还是可以感觉到他们的眼睛是双眼皮的。内双看起来会像单眼皮的。&==============================================================&hoang_1989those pics above show very typical vietnamese eyes. as i said before &dont have fully double eyelids& and &its like that you 'almost' can see a fold& is what i mean by hidden eyelids. but dont tell me that those women above have fully double eyelids? because thats not the case....以上照片里的都是很典型的越南眼,就像我之前说的&不完全的双眼皮&,你应该懂我说的内双吧,可别告诉我那些教双眼皮&&==============================================================Foxever&&That's true. Even those girls are without sugery, they're still bigger eye than Chinese.是真的,就算这些女孩没整过容,他们的眼睛还是比中国人大。&&==============================================================&&XigonCongchua(越南人)I don't know what b.s. you guys are saying lol. I don't think Koreans have bigger eyes than Chinese...well maybe bigger than certain sections of Chinese whose eyes are really really small (like certain sections of Fujianese I've seen), but on average no way Koreans have bigger eyes than Chinese.我不知道你们在胡说八道什么。我不觉得韩国人眼睛比中国人大,可能比某些地区的中国人眼睛大(根据我看过的某些地区的福建人),但是平均上来说韩国人的眼睛不可能比中国人大。&&===============================================================&&Type98GThe state of Chu in the warring states is located in what is now central China so Chu people from that time were in no question Hans Chinese. This is another Nanman attempt to claim superior Chinese culture and history. Besides Nanman with Chinese genes would be mainly located in north Vietnam, however we are not talking about north Vietnam we are talking about all of Vietnam. So Nanman is Nanman.asean.asia战国时期的楚国在现在的中国中部,所以楚国人毫无疑问是汉人。南蛮人又想来抢中国的文化和历史了。另外有汉族基因的南蛮应该在北越,但是现在我们讨论的不是北越而是整个越南,所以南蛮还是南蛮。&&==============================================================&&is beiman any better?The state of Chu in the warring states is located in what is now central China so Chu people from that time were in no question Hans Chinese. This is another Nanman attempt to claim superior Chinese culture and history. Besides Nanman with Chinese genes would be mainly located in north Vietnam, however we are not talking about north Vietnam we are talking about all of Vietnam. So Nanman is Nanman.引用上一个帖子:北蛮有比较好吗?&&===============================================================LonelyKitty&&^yeah you right. But i think we shouldn't called someone &man&&你说的对,不过我觉得我们不应该叫别人&蛮&。QUOTEWere Viets once Chinese?My opnion is:big &no&Remembered, once the Nguyen Dynasty called The Chinese is &Man& cos they are mixed with aliens (manchu), so they claimed that they are the real ancestor of Han and still remain &pure&, quite funny, but personally i think Vietnamese is Vietnamese, Chinese is chinese.And beside take a look at this:越南人曾是中国人吗?我的观点是。完全不是。要记住,阮朝称中国人为&蛮&因为他们和满族混血,所以阮朝自称汉人的真正传人而且保持了纯净,很搞笑,因为我个人认为越南人是越南人,中国人是中国人。另外看看这个:你们觉得长得像吗?我不觉得。&&So do you see anything similar? i think not.===============================================================Type98GGood that you see it this way, seeing as that the Manchus are now assimilated into Han.Besides I don't want nanman culture to be link to Chinese culture, why can't they follow Cambodian and Laos culture instead.引用上一个帖子:很高兴你这么看,因为满族人已经和汉人融合了。另外我也不希望吧南蛮文化和中国文化联系在一起。他们为什么不跟随柬埔寨和老挝的文化呢?&==============================================================&ElapsePridethe picture shows a sample face from HK, a southerner or cantonese if you may.as matter of fact ,80% of the han chinese have north-east asian looking faces, in other words, close to koreans, japanese ,even mongoliansthe cantonese is a hybrid race mixed with yue and han chinese from the north. this is why many of them still look south-east asian(depending how much original han chinese blood in them) of which is also the main reason at times they're discriminated by other han chinese because of the disctinctive SEA looking, flat nose, thick lips, dark skin ect as well as their language because no one seems to understand it except for themselves, many of us say 'the cantonese people look so vietnamese' and that's not a compliment, sorry, it's true, i know it's harsh, because most of us do not consider SEA facial characteristics as good looking, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you might consider most of the NEA are ugly. However the discrimination against cantonese is somehow partial, meaning we still make friends with each other even though such discrimination do exist especially in northern china, where people always call cantonese south monkey.lets get back to the topic, don't bother about whether or not vietnamese were once chinese, most of us don't care, and don't want to have you become chinese, we have enough SEA blood among us already, no more, because no one in china likes to look SEA. so peace, it's the politicians and crazyass nationalists who always stir up the air引用上面那个图:上面这个图采样的是香港人,其实也就是南方人和广东人。事实上,80%的汉人长得是东北亚人的脸,换句话说,和韩国人,日本人甚至蒙古人长得像。广东人是越人和北方汉人的混血,这就是为什么他们长得像东南亚人(取决于他们有多少真正的汉人血统),这也是为什么他们被别的汉人看不起,因为他们长得像东南亚人,扁鼻子,厚嘴唇,黑皮肤还有他们的语言。中国人会说广东人长得像越南人,那可不是好听话,不好意思,这是事实,我知道很难听,但是中国人不觉得东南亚的长相好看。不过不同的人审美不同,你也可能认为大多数东北亚人丑。但是对广东人的歧视也不是完全的,我们还是可以做朋友,虽然北方人还是会歧视,叫广东人南方猴子。回到主题,不用管越南人是不是曾经是中国人,我不在乎,也不希望你们做中国人。我们身上的东南亚血已经够多了,不需要了,因为中国人不想长得像东南亚人。&===============================================================&
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